Bump.... i wanna know what Hadd thinks about the above post...
Okay, Wise Man (and John Smith), I understand the questions. As you can see, I tend to write quite lengthy replies to do my best to ensure that what I am saying is well understood. So, while the questions seem simple, the answer is not. It is easier to respond to a specific question than to set down general guidelines.
Give me some time to jot down everything I think I would need to say and get it in order (and keep it concise and not book-length), and I'll do my best to answer.
I'm kinda busy here right now, so give me till Monday or so. No need to keep bumping this thread, I'll go back and look for it and post it here.
Does anybody know how to post graphics (jpegs) on here? Is it possible? Would help if I could.
I hope you haven't forgotten about us...
Hope all is well with you!
Wise - I wouldn't dream of speaking for Hadd, but I feel safe in saying that in answer to you HR target question: yes, go faster if your HR stays on target. That is the whole goal of the aerobic development period: getting more efficient at the target effort. Rather than finding an exact pace to focus on, find the effort level to focus on and the pace will slowly improve.
There's a long, long thread "I Hadd a Question" - same name - from late in 2002 that is still on this board. Do a search for it. It goes on for something like 8 or 10 pages and I think you'll find some answers there and many, many variations on his general theme, including his thoughts on transitions from the easy running period to the dreaded anaerobic sessions.
Sorry, but i feel i gotta bump this so Hadd can see it.
i noticed you're back. i know i'm pestering you with the above qiestions, but if you take the time to answer them, i (and all runners) will appreciate it.
I most definitely have not forgotten you. How to phrase the answers you are looking for has been on my mind and your questions have been bubbling away on the mental back-burner all the time I was away.
I hope to get my thoughts into postable shape by Thurs at the latest... look for a new thread at that time. Thanks.
Thought I would update this thread with the progress I had. I've been running in the low 30's (mpw) and very slowly (9:00 to 9:30 pace) every day except once per week, which is either tempo or intervals. Typical week is: MON-rest, TUE-5x1000, WED-4.5mi, THU-8mi, FRI-rest, SAT-4.5mi, SUN-10mi.
This is not quite up to what Hadd recommended, but my joints and tendons protested when I tried more. So I hope to work up to Hadd's "WEEK A" soon. After about 4 weeks of this reduced schedule (on 2/25), I did notice a sudden drop in heartrate. For the same pace, my avg HR dropped 5-6 bpm. For a constant bpm, my pace dropped 25-30 seconds. I ran a 5K on 3/2 and time dropped to 20:18 (from 21:30 5 weeks ago).
I assume I can expect more of the same if I continue to increase the volume and keep the effort level low for most runs. I'll keep posting every month or so with results...
It has been 7 weeks since the improved 5k in my last post, and I am a bit disappointed...
There has there been no significant improvement in my pace/HR during my regular runs. I performed Hadd's 2400m test this Sunday, and measured even worse than my non-improved times!
How have I been training? I dropped the intervals and ran slow (140-145 HR) every day, with one slow long run (12miles) on the weekends when possible. Once or twice a week, I run slightly faster (155 HR) for about 9 miles. I have not been able to be consistant for a variety of reasons (vacations, pulled calf, etc) and my weekly miles have varied quite a bit (16, 40, 32, 24, 33, 43, and 28 mpw for the past 7 weeks).
Details of the 2400m test:
2400m reps, measuring pace and HR for the last 1600m of each rep (used the first 800m to get up to pace). Rest 90s between reps. I adjusted the levels to 145/155/165/175 because I didn't think I could hold 180 for the full distance (183ish is my max). Times and HR were:
144 - 9:40.6
156 - 8:46.7
165 - 7:57.2
175 - 7:00.5
Since I am going to compare these to future tests, I felt the need to normalize them where I hadn't held an exact HR (144 vs. 145). From previous data, I computed that 1bpm HR is about equal to 5.6 seconds on the pace, so my normalized time are:
145 - 9:35.0
155 - 8:52.3
165 - 7:57.2
175 - 7:00.5
Why are these so slow? I don't know. I regularly do better than this in my daily runs where I collect data. But the weather was nice (no wind, mild temps) and I rested the day before, so I really have no excuse. The only difference I can tell is that this was an afternoon run and mine are normally in the early morning. Anyway, I'll assume the test is valid and go on from here.
As you can see, I am still very, very, very slow. However, my legs do feel stronger and I feel that in a couple of weeks I can run the following schedule for approx 48mpw:
MON - 9.0 miles (155 HR)
TUE - 4.6 miles (140-145 HR)
WED - 6.8 miles (140-145 HR)
THU - 9.0 miles (155 HR)
FRI - 6.8 miles (140-145 HR)
SAT - 12.5-14.5 miles (140-145 HR)
SUN - rest
I will keep this schedule up for 20 weeks during the summer and refrain from any racing. I'll increase during this time to about 60mpw by adding about 2 miles to each day.
So, in 2 weeks I'll be able to "start training". I have a measurement to compare myself against in the future, I'll check my progress (or lack thereof) against this measurement and report it in this thread. I'm a little frustrated with my lack of progress so far, but I have faith...
Hadd's program is really structured in terms of running more than 50 mpw and with continuous runs greater than 60 mins. Because you are training at a volume well below that level your improvement may occur more slowly.
Thought I would update this thread since said I would in my last post...
I injured myself a few weeks after my last post. It came on gradually as a pain the right outer calf and in the left hip flexor. I tried to run through it and got to the point where I couldn't run. I took almost a week off to recover, started back up, and re-injured it the next week. I took *another* week off and started back very gradually, building up as slowly as I can stand.
Weekly milage has been: 36, 40, 38, 14, 31, 0, 14, 13, 14, 27, 16, 22, 22. Note that after the zero week, it has all been slow (approx 9m/m) jogging.
My achilles have been very stiff in the morning or after a long period of inactivity. I have not had any running schedule to speak of. Instead, I just wake up, walk around for about 5 minutes, then decide if my achilles are too stiff to run. If not, I go out for a 4-7 mile jog. Taking it very easy like this, along with stretching the calves alot seems to be helping... based on my weekly milage slowly creeping up into the 20's now and my subjective observation of not-quite-as-stiff achilles in the mornings.
Question for the board:
Should I keep building milage as I have for the past few weeks (just running by feel)? Or, am I setting myself up for another injury by continuing to run with stiff tendons?
I would recommend cross training for awhile and then when you are 100% better, you can start running again. And remember, Build the miles slow.