Tinman vs. Raczko - who is the better coach?

Cook the books wrote:

I've noticed in recent months that Tinman's popularity on Letsrun is at an all-time high and he's being heralded as a brilliant coaching mind. This is due in large part to Hunter's recent success.

On the other hand, Webb, who accomplished far more in high school than Hunter (up to this point), was coached by Scott Raczko and was generally not respected in the running community.

Why does this image disparity between the two coaches exist?

First of all, this is an obvious attempt to incite a grudge match between people who probably have at worst no relationship with one another at may well be cordially acquainted. You're a pot-stirrer and nothing more. But let's pretend you actually care.

For another, the comparison is not valid in the least. Yes, both Schwartz and Raczko have coached once-in-a-generation distance runners from Virginia and both have a "z" in their surnames. But, while there are many differences between the two coaches -- one being Schwartz's obviously superior grounding in sport science -- the area in which this comparison fails most miserably is this: Webb's career with Raczko has been over for a long time, whereas Schwartz and Hunter are still on a mutual ascendancy.

You're saying that Raczko wound up taking a lot of heat and wasn't respected. That is a judgment call at best even as it applies to Webb's running in 2000-2001, as a senior in high school, but people never really ripped Raczko until Webb was a few years out of high school and foundering. It it's not like the rippers were themselves respected figures in the running community; they were anonymous putzes like you and me and you.

I don't know if you are complaining that Raczko didn't get enough credit for his work or whether you think Schwartz gets too much, but either way all you've done is erect a huge straw man for LRC goons to take their hacks at.

asdfasf wrote:

jman1 wrote:

If Tinman had coached Webb, Webb would have finished just behind El G in 3:50 - 3:51 at Pre 2001. Webb would have went on to win at least one gold at 1500m and likely been within a second of the WR for the mile and/or the1500m. Webb had more raw speed and talent but than Drew but Tinman is far and away the better coach.

Or maybe Raczko did a much better job of developing webb's speed than Tinman did with Hunter.

That's probably likely true; however, keep in mind that although fast doesn't necessarily mean hard, Webb took the two to be synonymous and pushed (and I believe was pushed) much, much harder than he should have pushed. That, in my opinion, is the number one reason Webb is no longer running competitively. I would take the Tinman approach over the Razcko approach if my goal were to run at a high level for as long as possible.

.... wrote:

jman1 wrote:

If Tinman had coached Webb, Webb would have finished just behind El G in 3:50 - 3:51 at Pre 2001. Webb would have went on to win at least one gold at 1500m and likely been within a second of the WR for the mile and/or the1500m. Webb had more raw speed and talent but than Drew but Tinman is far and away the better coach.

100% false. To suggest Webb would have responded better to completely different training is ignorant. Webb held the SOPH mile record, probably would have broken 4 as a Jr. If not a small injury, and then broke the mile records, then ran sub 1:43.8,3:46,8:11,13:10,27:34 all under Raczko.

Tinman is not even close. There's no guarantee Hunter will ever improve after this year.

Then there's a possibility he's not even clean and Tinman gets no credit.

4:06 is a number. A very good number, but you're implying it was the best he could have gone. Perhaps a different approach would have gotten Webb even faster, which is hard to believe, but Webb was far better than many realize.

You had more credibility before you brought the inclination of drugs into your post.

Use some rationale and grow up.

seriously real? wrote:

[quote]Bop wrote:

To give back to the sport?

He coached him for free because Hunter was a stud, a super talent.

Webb was definitely talented, but Drew Hunter has been pretty clearly been brought up to be a runner by his parents who were phenomenal runners. He's got world class genetics. I'd be shocked if Drew Hunter ran much slower if his parents coached him, not tinman. I think it's more of Drew making tinman look good, and much less of the other.