What's wrong with a woman being faster?

What defines a good runner is winning races, setting records.

Is a 1:55 HS guy a better runner than Maria Mutola winning Olympic Gold? It's where you are in comparison to THOSE in the race with you.

Maybe we should just put animals in the Olympics, as they're faster.

I could take a cheetah in a marathon, no problem. Those guys always start too fast.

To answer the original question:

"Guys -- Any insight you can provide as to why it's so hard for some men to accept that a woman might just be a faster runner?"

Everything with men comes down to a pissing contest. Most men don't want to win these contests for their own satisfaction as much as to put the other guy in his place. With that in mind, being beaten by a woman is worse than being beaten by a man for the same reason that they hate having a woman for a boss. Mentally, it makes their dicks shrivel up and fall off.

the better runner is the one who runs the race fastest.

The point you're missing is that Paula Radcliffe is not racing against Dan Browne or any of the other men in the marathon. The moment you have two runners who are not racing against each other in the same competition, direct comparison of times loses its relevance.

so its all about effort then?

That's an irrelevant straw man. I didn't say that.

"They will throw an "easy day" completely out the window if a woman is beating them on it..."

Not true at all. Most good women I know run far faster on daily runs compared to their race times than most men I know. How women who race 5k at 5:40/mile on the track can run 7:00 pace on every single run of any distance on the roads is beyond me, but I know many, many who do. And they make perfect training partners for easy days, but only because they seem to priviledge medium/hard runs (for them) over volume.

the twittering woofer wrote:

What defines a good runner is winning races, setting records.

Is a 1:55 HS guy a better runner than Maria Mutola winning Olympic Gold? It's where you are in comparison to THOSE in the race with you.

So when I was the fastest 5Ker in Div III, does that mean I was just as good as Cragg?

Maria Mutola wins all her races on the world stage, making her a good runner.

Do you win all your races on the world stage?

Putting it simply, would you say Maria Mutola is a 'great' runner or not? Given a simple yes/no choice.

the twittering woofer wrote:

What defines a good runner is winning races, setting records.

Is a 1:55 HS guy a better runner than Maria Mutola winning Olympic Gold? It's where you are in comparison to THOSE in the race with you.

Maybe we should just put animals in the Olympics, as they're faster.

yes, a hs'er who has a faster PR over 800m is a better runner than maria mutola.

maria mutola is a great woman runner.

mo greene is a great human runner.

a cheetah is a great runner.

do you mean to tell me you don't think a dolphin is a better swimmer than micheal phelps? of course it is - its a freakin' dolphin!

there is a reason why we divide people into categories - to allow them to compete against people with similar attributes (gender, age, weight class, professionalism, small/large school, etc.) but just because you win your respective division, doesn't mean you are better than someone who gets beaten handily in a more competitive division.

look at it this way: high schools are often broken up into divisions based on enrollment size. in new jersey, the smallest group - group 1, usually produces the "weakest" champions. by your logic, the champ of group 1 is a better h.s. runner than someone who finishes way down in another group.

here's the results of the 2002 state meet: (group 1 first, then group 4 (the largest group)

Event 1 Boys 5k Run CC GROUP I

==================================================================================

Name Year School Avg Mile Finals Points

==================================================================================

1 Evan Geilich 11 BERNARDS 5:29.7 17:04.28 1

2 Marc Altenau 12 SHORE REGIONAL HS 5:31.1 17:08.59 2

3 Rafael Abreu 11 LEONIA 5:35.4 17:21.95 3

4 Milo Schwab SR HIGHLAND PARK 5:36.0 17:23.88 4

5 Rick Hall 11 MAPLE SHADE 5:36.5 17:25.48 5

Event 2 Boys 5k Run CC GROUP IV

==================================================================================

Name Year School Avg Mile Finals Points

==================================================================================

1 Peter Hess SR TOMS RIVER NORTH 5:04.2 15:44.84 1

2 Keith Krieger 12 CHEROKEE 5:04.5 15:45.82 2

3 Mohamed Khadraoui SO JFK-PATERSON 5:07.5 15:55.34 3

4 Christopher Pannone 11 HUNTERDON CENTRAL 5:09.1 16:00.27 4

5 Dan Deichert 12 EASTERN 5:15.0 16:18.47 5

6 Paul Kornaszewski JR CLIFTON HIGH SCHOOL 5:15.1 16:18.87 6

7 Jonathan Fox 12 HUNTERDON CENTRAL 5:15.6 16:20.40 7

8 Mike Klueber SR HILLSBOROUGH H.S. 5:17.5 16:26.16 8

9 Ari Zamir 11 RIDGEWOOD 5:18.1 16:28.04 9

10 Matt Forys 12 HOWELL HS 5:19.8 16:33.51

11 Sean McLaughlin 10 CHEROKEE 5:21.0 16:37.18 10

12 Dan Bingham JR TOMS RIVER NORTH 5:21.8 16:39.78 11

13 Rich LA Fergola SR OLD BRIDGE H.S. 5:22.4 16:41.47 12

14 Chris Pisano SO TOMS RIVER NORTH 5:22.7 16:42.52 13

15 Andrew Riviello 12 EASTERN 5:24.2 16:46.97 14

16 Steve Unger 12 SHAWNEE HIGH SCHOOL 5:24.5 16:47.91 15

17 Rodolfo Crispin 12 RIDGEWOOD 5:25.9 16:52.37 16

18 Jamie Mahoney 12 MORRISTOWN 5:26.0 16:52.69 17

19 Kyle Eckman 12 BRIDGEWATER-RARITAN 5:26.7 16:54.98 18

20 Keith Gruchacz 12 BRIDGEWATER-RARITAN 5:26.9 16:55.49 19

21 Ryan Bennett SR OLD BRIDGE H.S. 5:27.1 16:56.18 20

22 Chris DE Leon SR OLD BRIDGE H.S. 5:27.6 16:57.55 21

23 Brian Fraser 12 HUNTERDON CENTRAL 5:27.8 16:58.16 22

24 John Guzman 11 BRIDGEWATER-RARITAN 5:28.5 17:00.54 23

25 Nick Vaccaro SR HILLSBOROUGH H.S. 5:28.6 17:00.79 24

26 Jerry Boucicaut SR JFK-PATERSON 5:28.8 17:01.48 25

27 Josh Krowicki 11 TRITON 5:29.1 17:02.27

28 Tom Yersak 10 CHEROKEE 5:29.5 17:03.53 26

now please tell me that the 28 guys who ran faster than the group 1 champion are worse runners because they didn't win their race!!!!!

same thing with women runners. they may win, show guts, yada, yada, yada, but the fact remains - in general, they are NOT any better than a very good high school boy runner. they may be more accomplished, make more money, have more championships - but if you put them head to head in a race, the woman would lose.

Nothing wrong with the chica being faster especially if she is training hard and not sitting on the couch eating bon-bons. I recall a race where I finished ahead of some chap that I was totally unaware of until he came up to me after the event and said "you're pretty good, for a girl!"

to which my response was "you're pretty good too, for a guy." things that make you go hmmmm......

My wife is much faster than me these days. Won a national masters title last year.

Of course Sarah can kick my arse as well.

Quote: "I ran Boston in 1994, and set a PB. Although I normally rank in the top 10, I was only 51st here. Even though I've won 3 marathons, it was the trill of a liftime. The reason for that was that I ran with the eventual winner Uta Pippig stride for stride during the last 4 miles. I've never heard so much yelling , screaming and ecouragement in my life. Even though it was for Uta, it was an honour to run with a world class athlete for the last 4 miles. I will cherish that race forever, and I have the tape. I missed Boston 93 and Boston 95 due to injuries. I plan to run the 100th, even though I have been injured again. The Boston book from Tom Derderian is a very good read, and gives you a good feeling of the special status the Boston race has among marathoners. I do remember running the first few miles and thinking to my self "I am running Boston, I am running Boston". It's my verions of the olympics, and it is the closest I come to running with world class athletes. Just standing in the front corral wachting the eleite is a thrill. ...Harry"

Sarah wrote:

I recall a race where I finished ahead of some chap that I was totally unaware of until he came up to me after the event and said "you're pretty good, for a girl!"

to which my response was "you're pretty good too, for a guy." things that make you go hmmmm......

The difference is that, while he was indeed purposely trying to bust your chops, what he said WAS true. For a GIRL....you are pretty good. But, if you were a guy, your times would not be particularly good. So he was correct.

Now what you said back to the guy, that he was pretty good "for a guy," was just not true. If he was behind you, he is not pretty good for a guy, just OK.

The funny thing about this whole issue is:

if men say something like "women are, on the average and in general, far inferior athletes to men," women get mad, even though they know it to be true. But, if on the other hand, we try to take away that natural/genetic disadvantage that they have and say: "ok, if I beat you, I am BETTER THAN YOU PERIOD. I don't care if you were a higher WOMEN's finisher than I was a Men's finisher, I beat you, so I am better," they get mad at that TOO!

Women, make up your minds! You want to have your cake and eat it too. Are you naturally inferior athletes because of lack of testosterone (one of the main reasons), or not??? If so, then we respect your performances in relation to that disadvantage. If not.....then most of you are pretty darn bad. Make your choice and be content......or start taking steroids and become like the East German "women" once were, or like FloJo. Take enough juice, and you will become a man!! (a really sick, deformed one eventually, but basically a man for awhile)

Hypo wrote:

The reason they can't accept it is because they are insecure jerks.

the way society is structured is partly responsible for their insecurity

q: what is wrong with a chick being faster?

a: she is a chick.

end of discussion.

Dude, ever heard of sarcasm? I was giving him back the statement against me. I have no problem with men being faster many have pulled me to my best times over my running career, thanks fellas :o)

......Finally, and most importantly, average sex differences tell us nothing about individuals. Paula Radcliffe, the women's marathon world record holder, can outperform more than 99 percent of men. Even if there were a large gap between men and women in mathematical performance (and there is not), it would tell us nothing about the male or the female aspiring assistant professor who lands an interview at the Harvard Mathematics Department.

"Paula Radcliffe, the women's marathon world record holder, can outperform more than 99 percent of men."

I think your statement underrates her. She can outperform more than 99% of men racers, and darned close to 100% of men.