BBC reporting Kenya set to be declared in breach of global anti-doping rules in surprise WADA move

Checker wrote:

I have found that the western media likes to sensationalize Kenyan doping cases.

Koki and Zakary are two nobodies with no medal prospects. But when they were busted, virtually every news outlet in the west blew up headlines. Search google and see for yourself.

Ultimately there is too much emphasis on Kenya. You would think Kenya is the only non-compliant country?

Are all of these Eastern European nations compliant?

Not to mention how breathless the BBC were breaking this with the British media cheering on. The same media that heaped on Athens, Sochi and Rio as they prepared to host the Olympics as well as savaging World Cup hosts South Africa and Brazil's reps in the run up.

El Keniano wrote:

Checker wrote:

I have found that the western media likes to sensationalize Kenyan doping cases.

Koki and Zakary are two nobodies with no medal prospects. But when they were busted, virtually every news outlet in the west blew up headlines. Search google and see for yourself.

Ultimately there is too much emphasis on Kenya. You would think Kenya is the only non-compliant country?

Are all of these Eastern European nations compliant?

Not to mention how breathless the BBC were breaking this with the British media cheering on. The same media that heaped on Athens, Sochi and Rio as they prepared to host the Olympics as well as savaging World Cup hosts South Africa and Brazil's reps in the run up.

Victim.

There is no use in calling me racist anyway. Nobody here knows my background. I may live in Britain and have a British passport, but happen to have heritage from one of the countries I have been calling out.

I agree that punishing all the athletes including those very likely clean is a great shame. But let's be Democratic about this. This is how the Western world operates, and for good reason. If the country cannot show itself to be behaving fairly then the entire country has to be subject to consequences. It is the only way.

There is more of a problem with doping in Kenya, because of the lack of controls. I do not think there is something wrong with Kenyan's morally. Maybe this is where the hostility I am receiving is coming from. I simply think that when there is nothing to stop humans from taking a shortcut, they will. This applies to all countries. You can call me a pessimist about the human race, but not a racist.

im sure a lot of kenyans dope,but how do you think it would compare to say,russia?just as rife? its now a proven fact that a great many second and third tier kenyans take drugs,and compete at lesser competitions where theres no drug testing,so they can win and get prizemoney.im guessing if the lower leval athletes take drugs many of heir elites must,as well.

trollism wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Not to mention how breathless the BBC were breaking this with the British media cheering on. The same media that heaped on Athens, Sochi and Rio as they prepared to host the Olympics as well as savaging World Cup hosts South Africa and Brazil's reps in the run up.

Victim.

Hater.

Metric Miler wrote:

There is more of a problem with doping in Kenya, because of the lack of controls. I do not think there is something wrong with Kenyan's morally. Maybe this is where the hostility I am receiving is coming from. I simply think that when there is nothing to stop humans from taking a shortcut, they will. This applies to all countries. You can call me a pessimist about the human race, but not a racist.

The above bolded section must be a joke. Kenya is certainly not the worst offender. Russia clearly is. The rest of Eastern Europe is not too far behind.

And Known dopers do not represent Kenya. Great Britain and the US are notorious for giving known dopers second and third chances to represent the country. Heck the US even hired a known doper as a relay coach.

A person representing Great Britain or the US at the Olympics is more likely to be a doper than a person representing Kenya. The statistics prove it. None of the top Kenyans have ever failed drug tests at major meets

Let's be clear.- Kenya has been either the most dominant or one of the most dominant countries in track, xc, and the roads for decades.- Kenya is not the most tested - the statistics you cite are for countries without their own program. Arguing this undermines your credibility.- Kenya recently started to be tested more in competition and OOC. This started to reveal a big doping problem that has been ignored. - the fact that here are many clean Kenyans and Ethiopians misses the point. Instead of pushing to address the problem, people come here arguing (1) EPO can't work on elite Kenyans or Ethiopians (with an ever changing definition) - come on; (2) Kenyans are tested most (they are not); and (3) anyone who wants to see the problem addressed is being unfair to Kenya or Ethiopia - which is like saying cycling should apply the same focus to Chinese riders as they do to spaniards or Italians.My interest in the pro level of the sport has diminished because of this. I would encourage race directors to focus on local taken rather than fly in people from other counties. In the end, who cares if they win a 10k 45 seconds slower?

Checker wrote:

The above bolded section must be a joke. Kenya is certainly not the worst offender. Russia clearly is. The rest of Eastern Europe is not too far behind.

Nobody knows. We know at this point there are many creative ways to never test positive. Sports refuse to publish anonymized reports regarding the cleanliness of their athletes.

Checker wrote:

A person representing Great Britain or the US at the Olympics is more likely to be a doper than a person representing Kenya. The statistics prove it. None of the top Kenyans have ever failed drug tests at major meets

Haha. That's great. Watch this and get back to us.

Metric Miler wrote:

You can call me a pessimist about the human race, but not a racist.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

In my eyes, being British disqualifies you from being objective about this issue so do take a seat.

You can pontificate and foam at the mouth all you want but it still won't bring back the glory days of British athletics. Those days are over ... for good. I bet it stings that you had to import a Somali to even compete but that's the only way you'll stand any chance flin the forseeble future. Get used to it. That, or getting your puppets to pick out countries that consistently beat you for blanket bans instead of going after actual individuals.

You're as transparent as a shot of cheap vodka and we all known from where your attacks are emanating.

El Keniano wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

You can call me a pessimist about the human race, but not a racist.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

In my eyes, being British disqualifies you from being objective about this issue so do take a seat.

You can pontificate and foam at the mouth all you want but it still won't bring back the glory days of British athletics. Those days are over ... for good. I bet it stings that you had to import a Somali to even compete but that's the only way you'll stand any chance flin the forseeble future. Get used to it. That, or getting your puppets to pick out countries that consistently beat you for blanket bans instead of going after actual individuals.

You're as transparent as a shot of cheap vodka and we all known from where your attacks are emanating.

And being Kenyan makes you completely unbiased?

Incredible arrogance.

You know Kenya is only good at one small part of one sport, yep?

El Keniano wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

You can call me a pessimist about the human race, but not a racist.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

In my eyes, being British disqualifies you from being objective about this issue so do take a seat.

You can pontificate and foam at the mouth all you want but it still won't bring back the glory days of British athletics. Those days are over ... for good. I bet it stings that you had to import a Somali to even compete but that's the only way you'll stand any chance flin the forseeble future. Get used to it. That, or getting your puppets to pick out countries that consistently beat you for blanket bans instead of going after actual individuals.

You're as transparent as a shot of cheap vodka and we all known from where your attacks are emanating.

Once again, you do not know me. I am half African.

El Keniano wrote:

You're as transparent as a shot of cheap vodka and we all known from where your attacks are emanating.

This made me laugh.

Surely expensive vodka is more likely to be transparent?

El Keniano wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

You can call me a pessimist about the human race, but not a racist.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

In my eyes, being British disqualifies you from being objective about this issue so do take a seat.

You can pontificate and foam at the mouth all you want but it still won't bring back the glory days of British athletics. Those days are over ... for good. I bet it stings that you had to import a Somali to even compete but that's the only way you'll stand any chance flin the forseeble future. Get used to it. That, or getting your puppets to pick out countries that consistently beat you for blanket bans instead of going after actual individuals.

You're as transparent as a shot of cheap vodka and we all known from where your attacks are emanating.

Talk about pot calling kettle black!

ISBN wrote:

Talk about pot calling kettle black!

I bet Keniano cannot believe I'm half African and I am very proud to see a fellow African, Farah, winning medals for Britain, his adopted country. I am strongly of the belief that one is allowed to adopt a Nation and call it their own, fight for it, represent it, despite birthright. You cannot control your birth but you can control the nation you feel is home and the most affinity and loyalty towards. And that means something.

El Keniano wrote:

Scandia wrote:

In Norway its like this. And El Keniano, don't talk about being the most tested. You guys are nowhere near the level of control we are, no where near. Ingebrigtsen is under mutch more watch than kenyans. He also gets tested more in international competetions, go figure.

We're also not as rich as you with budgets for state-of-the-art labs and infrastructure to match. These runners are the product of natural talent and chance rather than some expensive scientific programme designed to churn out world beaters.There is literary zilch funding from the government for such things, not because they don't want to, but because they can't afford to as it's unrealistic in a developing country that has to prioritise healthcare, food, housing and stuff. What's your point, again?

Youre officially a moron.

You are the one who boasted about all the testing in Kenya, its nothing to boast about compared to nation who actually does a lot of testing. Sure, were rich, but thats not the point. Dont brag about something youre not good about.

Secondly, what ridiculous thoughts do you have about training in the rest of the world? Salazar and his group is unique.

Ingebrigtsen had to move back home because of lack of income. He and his father does everything, training and income. Theres no expensive scientific program or anything else. Ingebrigtsen is pure talent who have worked extremely hard to beat runners with far more talent, from Kenya etc.

So, let's be clear on my side.

1 - Yes

2 - Ok, Kenya is the most tested among Countries not having an antidoping agency working locally. But the fact last year 135 kenyan athletes were tested for 393 times (globally) remains, and this clearly belies the idea top Kenyans are not tested.

3 - Do you know how many test there are, in Countries with a good antidoping system, OOC ? Because the fact there are these tests doesn't mean the number of tests is very high, and superior to 393 times. You need to think that, in all the other Countries, tests are spread in all the athletic events, while in Kenya are (98%, 2% is for Julius Yego and Nicholas Bett) ALL for middle distance runners. So, do you know HOW MANY TESTS OOC THERE ARE in UK, Germany, US, for athletes of Middle and Long distances ? Do you think are more than 390 ? I Always agreed that the Kenyan antidoping didn't work.

But I never agreed that Kenyan athletes are not tested, since I have athletes in my Group tested also 7 times, OOC, in Kenya (3-4 times with blood too).

4 - Wrong. The problem exists, but was not revealed by the OOC tests in Kenya. The OOC tests in Kenya are carried out by WADA and IAAF, and the subjects tested are ALL in the whereabout system, because are inside the top 20 in the world. Among ALL these athletes (more than 80) at the top of the international lists, ONLY RITA JEPTOO and EMILY CHEBET were caught in a similar test. All the other athletes (I repeat, second and third level) were caught AFTER some race, in different parts of the World, and in any case NEVER could be tested at home, being not interesting for the level of Kenyan athletes.

5 - Yes, I continue to say that EPO doesn't work with the best athletes born, living and training in altitude, if they have proper training. And I continue to say that scientists need to study the effects of TRAINING with this class of people, before speaking about effects of doping.

This doesn't justify any athlete, Kenyan or Ethiopian, who wants to take some dope for enhancing his/her performance : I'm for banning them for a period longer than 4 years, and for cancelling all the results they had in their career (also if they were clean when running before doping).

But it's a clear message to all the athletes and coaches : EPO doesn't work, doesn't give any advantage if you live in altitude and want to train hard and properly, so you are idiots risking to be banned for not having any advantages.

Last week, the Italian walker Alex Schwazer, Olympic Champion of 50 km in Beijing 2008 (winning clean), who started to look at doping at the end of 2010, and started doping at the beginning of 2012 in a moment of personal depression, came back, after a ban of almost 4 years, winning the race in 3:39:00 in bad conditions. He looks at a medal in Olympics, and at the possibility to attack the WR.

He is followed by Sandro Donati, one of the most hard and aggressive Champions of antidoping, collaborator of WADA and Always being in a tight spot against doping. He accepted to coach Schwazer after investigating his motivation and understanding he wanted to change completely mind.

Schwazer is now followed by an equipe including one of the most hematologists in the world, prof. D'Onofrio, one of the scientists of antidoping. He has blood tests MORE DEEP than the tests of WADA every two weeks, sometimes also shorte periods (till now, in the last year, he had already 45 tests, all on-line and certificated by his equipe of antidoping experts).

Sandro Donati was one of the researchers speaking about 5-6 minutes of advantage (for 50 km walking) and about 4 minutes (for marathon) and about 1 minute (for 10000m on track), Now he can touch with his hands that, without EPO (and in the case of Schwazer, also without training in altitude), but with proper training, athletes of top talent can run or walk FASTER than with doping (we speak about blood doping only).

In his comment after the race of Schwazer, Donati said "we need to discuss about the effects of training, since this is a factor not still studied at the maximum level of competitivity".

We can look at this 2014 report for an idea of different IC and OOC tests by different nations.

https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/wada_2014_anti-doping-testing-figures_full-report_en.pdf

(I expect the 2015 report out in mid july)

But a compounding issue is the allegations of cover ups. Russia and Kenya aren't the only countries guilty of wide-spread doping, but far fewer nations have such evidence of covering up doping as well.

393 tests doesn't matter when the integrity of those tests are called into question. We have reports of extortion, offers to pay up or they'll announce a positive, from both athletics Kenya and IAAF. And now WADA says that the procedures for managing those samples is not in compliance.

Well, what truth do those 393 tests show then, if we cannot trust their results?

It can hardly be a surprise that Kenya is being targeted, when they have this set of issues, most successful athletes, numerous doping allegations, corruption and bribery, and a non-compliant system.

Has WADA spelled out exactly what is out of compliance in Kenya?

El Keniano wrote:

Dan Roan, the BBC journalist who broke this, is speculating WADA not happy with amendments to the original bill. Kenya went further than asked in including jail terms for offenders.

We want FREQUENT STANDARD DOPING TESTS according to the Wada code, not that the Kenyan authorities jail or chop off the arms and legs of a runner they don't like.