my mile time

its actually for cross country but my coach told me that they wanted to recruit me for it. DownUnder Sports?

I think you answered your own question. If you have not done long runs in 6 months then you need to get back to it.

As a personal example, I suddenly discovered towards the end of my junior cross country season that you could go out and jog six miles easily and it would do a body good. What I proceeded to do is run 8 miles on Saturday and 8 miles on Sunday. The result was a huge PR, beating two of my teammates who always beat me, and an athletic letter!

You can call it what you want, he wanted a method to get to 4:30. You are answering a question that was never asked. Call it giving the "right" advice or whatever, but that's not what he wanted.

Also, running FASTER than current record pace, and running AT GOAL PACE is something that many elites actually do OFTEN. Running at goal pace isn't crazy or even a new concept.

Moses Kiptanui and William Sigei et al do intervals at their GOAL pace.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=1273539&thread=1273096#1273539

6x600m is not even a difficult session. The speed with rest is obviously going to be the most challenging. But volume wise it is very low for a 5:05 miler.

If you don't end up injured I am 100% certain you will comfortably be in the 4:40s. You may not break 4:40 since that is a massive amount of time to drop, but easily you will take 15 seconds off your time.

FYI I did a similar workout in my senior year in HS coming back from a niggling injury, and had about 4 weeks before state championships. My hobby jogging loser HS coach had no clue what to do so I went to a USATF coach (with an impeccable record of sending kids to D1 programs and coaching all-Americans) and this is exactly what he had me do.

I became state champion.

Sad part is, I DID develop an injury and couldn't run in nationals - well I guess I could have taken a bunch of pain meds but my D1 coach told me to sit out nationals, heal properly and get ready for fall XC season instead.

Just gonna chime in here...

I would agree with most of these posters in saying that you shouldn't listen to formerd1. But I think actuald1coach knows what he's talking about. Breaking 5 as a 16 y/o is definitely impressive. Just focus on that goal. Also, I don't think runs any longer than 5 miles are really gonna help you at this point. Good luck.

formerD1 wrote:

No offence formerD1, but your advice is irresponsible and indulgent.

Yours is a great, reasonable suggestion. But at most it will get him a 10 second bump in 6 weeks.

I think he was hoping for more. I gave him a "guts or glory" training program. Aside from that there's really nothing he can do in 6 weeks to have any meaningful improvement to his mile time.

Will he be happy settling in at 4:55? Because listening to you that's all he can really hope for. No offense, coach.

Oh gosh I haven't read through it all, but this better not be that DownUnder sports thing every high schooler gets in the mail

Lol they sent one of those to a highjumper in my school

It is lol

None taken. I even said my plan was ridiculous. But I don't see any other possible way that he can possibly come close to 4:30.

Also, just to add, there are some good takeways from my plan:

1) Running workouts at goal pace (rather than based off of current race pace or slightly faster) is a proven method used by elites.

2) Intervals are the only way to cut down your time with a few weeks remaining. Distances of 400-800m are going to be optimal for this.

3) Too late for mileage

Also, breaking 5:00 as a 16 year old is insignificant and not impressive. You have middle school boys who can do that.

formerD1, are you coaching ? Do you want to coach? Telling someone that they will most certainly end up injured doing the training you are recommending is so not cool. I know you mean well, but you have to be careful in giving advice to unrealistic young runners.

On a lighter note, I do agree with a lot of the training/ workouts you laid out.

Can you share some of your accomplishments?

Are you doing that stupid downunder sports thing?

The OP wanted to get to 4:30 and if he's willing to risk a stress fracture of pulled hammy to get there, who am I to tell him it's impossible? At least at the end of the day he can say he went for it and won't have any regrets if it doesn't work out. Going from 5:05 to 4:55 is really kind of meaningless in my opinion.

I'm not a really accomplished runner. I was a 1:50 800m runner in HS, also did the mile. In college I tried to convert myself to a distance runner since I was more interested in the actual activity of running than spending all day on the track doing intervals and weight training. Plus I liked our distance guys a lot more than the 200/400m guys I typically hung out with (what a lazy but fast bunch of kids seriously). That plan didn't work out so well. I quit running the day I graduated from college since I never had aspirations to run professionally.

Pin Racer wrote:

If I were you I wouldn't listen to FormerDI. He gives some of the worst advice I have ever seen on these boards. His plan will lead to injury, burnout, and slower race times.

Thank you.

ActualD1Coach wrote:

Don't listen to FormerD1.

Yes.

I'm not discouraging you from going, but the DownUnder thing is not college recruitment if that's what you're thinking. From what I've seen/been told they just send letter to thousands of highschool athletes asking them to come on a trip to Australia to compete. I am sure you will have to pay for the trip, and I doubt it will help with the college recruiting process. I guess it could be a fun little trip

Lover of motor carriages wrote:

ActualD1Coach wrote:

Don't listen to FormerD1.

Yes.

No.

I started the workouts and theyre not as intimidating as everyone says they should be. Monday: Upper body weight workouts- bench presses 3:10/ pull ups 3:10/ Squat 3:10/ And another bench press. then that after noon i ran 9 1/2 miles in an hour and 10 minutes. Afterwords i did ab workouts with 4:75 russian twists / 1: 1 minute plank/ 4:25 sit ups.

Tuesday: In the afternoon i did my track warmu/ 2:100m buildups/5: 400m intervals (i tried doing it at goal pace but my legs were too sore) then/ 4:100m buildups/ then after i did the same ab workouts as monday

wednesday: 3:10 bench press/ 3:15 bar curls/ 4:15 in these shoulder workouts/ 3:10 bench press. Then when i got home i did a 30 minute stretch.

and rested for the day

Thursday: When i woke up i felt much better so in the afternoon i ran 9 1/2 miles again in an hour and 15 minutes (5 minutes slower) with a good strong finish in my last mile. Then when i got home i started the ab workouts but they were much easier so i did 4:100 russian twists instead of 75 the, 5:30 situps but i felt like i could do more so i did another 2:25. then i did my stretches.

Friday: it rained so i couldnt run outside so i just did 30 mintues of fast paced pedaling on my exercise bike which tired the mess out of my thighs.

Saturday: i planned on running 6 miles and then doing 4:400 meter intervals with my ab workouts but it rained and i had many things to do so i just rested.

Sunday: i rested on this day as well.

i felt like complete crap monday and tuesday due to the sudden intense workouts but after the break on wednesday i felt great and i was able to do the 9 1/2 mile run much more calmly then when i first did it. Oh and btw at first i said i had only 6 weeks to do this but i checked and i have 8 weeks with a week rest before the big day. I plan on doing this same workout this week and then by next week boost the mileage from a 9 1/2 run to a 12 and increase the pace of the intervals. (if my body allows me) but i feel great and thats only after one week i still have 8 left. i plan on timing my mile soon and ill give you an update on that.