B/c Jack said so wrote:
Recently I've gotten into Jack Daniels' VDOT calculators. Based on my PR's (low 15:00s 5k, low 32:00 10k) they say I should be running my easy days between 6:20 and 6:30. I generally run my easy days between 6:50 and 7:10 depending on feel.
Should I be running faster on my easy days? Is there any benefit to this?
Whoa. This is a really good thread. Time to make a few adjustments; slow down on recovery days.
speed is irrelevant
run the fastest pace that is still an easy pace 1111
if your world class 6:30 may be your easy day pace
if your a jogger 9:15 might be all you can muster and still be at an easy effort
been sick - slower pace
been in great fitness - possibly a bit faster
its an effort thing not a speed thing
find your own thing !!!!
To Vigil's point, studies show that lactic acid removal from the legs is optimal at 60% of current vo2 max. If your goal is recovery you should be at a pace slower than DRF but if your goal is to increase your aerobic base you should be in the range for the DRF tables.
The major problem I find with people doing DRF is that they don't read the entire book, they just go to the tables and workouts, but there is a ton of nuance to his methods which should be considered.
easy rider wrote:
Here's the best thing I've seen on the internet regarding easy runs:
http://www.logicoflongdistance.com/2013/01/what-is-easy-run.html
Good article--thanks for the link. I agree with the writer's approach, but I think my coach would agree more with the "easier" approach to easy runs.
3:51 pace
However going by feel on easy days for me and some others on this thread is still too fast for recovery, therefore, one must purposely run awkwardly slow to really recover. This slow running may seem harder than a faster pace due to the awkward feeling. When I run at an awkward feeling slower than 7 min pace, I am uncomfortable and feel all my aches and pains more. However, I do recover better than if I just go by feel on my easy runs and end up going 6:30:6:40 pace.
Daniels explicitly states in DRF that E pace is just a suggestion and that the athlete should feel free to run slower on easy distance runs. However, several of his workouts specify E pace during recovery phases--mostly for fartleks, hill repeats, etc.
Basically, hit E pace intervals when specifically called for and use it as a"lower limit" on your recovery days.
"Easy" is a feeling, not a pace.
B/c Jack said so wrote:
Recently I've gotten into Jack Daniels' VDOT calculators. Based on my PR's (low 15:00s 5k, low 32:00 10k) they say I should be running my easy days between 6:20 and 6:30. I generally run my easy days between 6:50 and 7:10 depending on feel.
Should I be running faster on my easy days? Is there any benefit to this?
If you are running easy you should not look at your watch. Maybe you should not even wear it. Who cares if your watch tells you "20-30 secs faster per mile" blah blah blah.EASY IS NOT A PACE, IT IS A FEEL. If 4:45/mile feels EASY then that's what it is. If another day it's 9:15/mile then so be it.Is it really that hard for some people to understand? It's possible your heartrate may be 140 on one easy run and 155 on another.....it doesn't matter. The effort you FEEL is the most important thing.
Going by feel wrote:
Going by feel does not work for all- when I go "easy" without looking at my watch until the end I go 20-30 secs per mile faster than the tables say I should. For some reason 6:30-6:40 pace seems very easy to me, but 6:15 is hard. The only way I can go easy without looking at my time the whole time, is to look at my heart rate. Zone 2 and zone 3 heart rate for me are equally as "easy". Actually zone 2 or slower than 7 min pace feels very uncomfortable for me- like I'm braking the whole time and I feel like a robot.
i'm similar to this guy and do the same. 7:45-8:00 for recovery, 6:40-7:10 easybasically, don't look at your watch on recovery days. just start the first mile or so very easy, then go by feel. sometimes i even do recovery with my wife and we run 8:45-9:15 pace and i feel amazingjust don't let your stride/gait get messed up by slow shuffling, because you could get injured.
lameo wrote:
two types of easy days :
recovery easy:recovery, run slow and reap benefits
maintenance easy :maintain fitness these days so not too slow
I run about 5:25-5:30 pace for the marathon , my recovery days are upwards of 745-830 pace, and easy maintenance days are 6:30-7:00
I run without a watch almost all of the time but just like anyone else I get curious about my pace/effort, so I do a "sample effort test" every 4-6 months. Basically I go to the track on a day when I don't feel either especially tired or fresh, and run a mile "blind" not looking at the watch. Sometimes I'll do two miles. This gives me a pretty good read on my aerobic situation. I'll add a "fudge factor" of 30 seconds or so and use overall time divided by this to determine my daily and weekly "mileage". If I think I am running a minute slower than "normal" I'll add that amount. This allows me to run hilly or flat terrain and different conditions with a pretty even stress level.
For those folks who are feeling "awkwardly slow" when they try to throttle back: what is your cadence doing on those runs? My experience is that an "off" feel to a gait happens when cadence gets reduced to hold a slower pace, rather than stride length. It's definitely something useful to measure and play around with.
I know people with 5k PRs of 21 minutes who do easy days between 6:50 and 7:10.
Their hard days are between 6:45 and 7:05.
B/c Jack said so wrote:
Recently I've gotten into Jack Daniels' VDOT calculators. Based on my PR's (low 15:00s 5k, low 32:00 10k) they say I should be running my easy days between 6:20 and 6:30. I generally run my easy days between 6:50 and 7:10 depending on feel.
Should I be running faster on my easy days? Is there any benefit to this?
Keep in mind that your times were run on a track. Therefore, you should be slowing down a bit based on the terrain of the road. There are hills and turns and whatnot that complicate the run.
There is some truth to that
dima doof wrote:
I know people with 5k PRs of 21 minutes who do easy days between 6:50 and 7:10.
Their hard days are between 6:45 and 7:05.
B/c Jack said so wrote:
Recently I've gotten into Jack Daniels' VDOT calculators. Based on my PR's (low 15:00s 5k, low 32:00 10k) they say I should be running my easy days between 6:20 and 6:30. I generally run my easy days between 6:50 and 7:10 depending on feel.
Should I be running faster on my easy days? Is there any benefit to this?
there is no target pace. duh.
an easy day means running comfortably, relaxing, feeling the muscles turn over easily, go by how you feel. if you feel lousy, just go slow and relax and get your rest after the run.
Guy Jantic wrote:
There is some truth to that
dima doof wrote:I know people with 5k PRs of 21 minutes who do easy days between 6:50 and 7:10.
Their hard days are between 6:45 and 7:05.
Ha I wasn't kidding!
longjack wrote:
B/c Jack said so wrote:Recently I've gotten into Jack Daniels' VDOT calculators. Based on my PR's (low 15:00s 5k, low 32:00 10k) they say I should be running my easy days between 6:20 and 6:30. I generally run my easy days between 6:50 and 7:10 depending on feel.
Should I be running faster on my easy days? Is there any benefit to this?
there is no target pace. duh.
an easy day means running comfortably, relaxing, feeling the muscles turn over easily, go by how you feel. if you feel lousy, just go slow and relax and get your rest after the run.
Agreed
Low 15:00 5K's? Why not take up Zumba or wine-night painting, sounds like that might be more your speed.