Is OTC the place 800m guys go to die?

JRinaldi wrote:

I'd be happy to move there and help coach the 800m crew...if they take some of the guys I already coach (1:44.40/1:46.51). 😄

You sound like a mammoth douche.

Trialswatcher wrote:

Someone brought up Mac Fleet who I always thought had a lot of talent.

Where has he been?

And those are a LOT of guys often injured, it is hard to believe that many guys can get so dinged up , running around. Almost illogical.

Mac Fleet has not been on the pro scene for

Too big of contracts to not actually have to do anything. They never race; average maybe 6 races a year which almost always include NOT making the USA finals. Fleet, Abdu, Wheating, Casey, runner from Bringhamton, etc all have $50k+ contracts.

calendar guy wrote:

Too big of contracts to not actually have to do anything. They never race; average maybe 6 races a year which almost always include NOT making the USA finals. Fleet, Abdu, Wheating, Casey, runner from Bringhamton, etc all have $50k+ contracts.

Jock too! Brooks Beasts sort of the same. What is the total payroll for these groups of 15 or more athletes averaging $50,000/year. Nuts!!!

I really used the think that OTC was the place of middle distance guys to go because of Symmonds success. B with the exception of Mead and his success the OTC roster is full of some crazy accolades that leave you asking "What have you done recently?"

Fleet and Wheating need to change coaching. There is no reason double NCAA champs should be failing to make finals and world teams. Wheating's last real team was under Vin's coaching. Fleet's last impressive performance was under Andy's coaching.

Mac Fleet - 2x NCAA Champion

Andrew Wheating - Everyone knows what he has done.

Ciaran O'lionard - 3:34 World Finalist

Elijah Greer - 2x NCAA Champion

Charles Jock - NCAA Champion - 2011 World Team

Haven't heard a good result from them all in some time.

If I were a 1500 guy I would be looking for a new group like BTC, NOP, NY/NJ or see if Vin or Andy would be willing to coach them.

Wheating said he left Vin because he was a college coach and he needed someone who was more focused on him rather than growing the sport but at least Wheating was making teams with Vin.

I'm sure none of them would go to NOP but at the moment they have the best group of 800/1500/Mile times.

As far as how Jock keeps a contract I would assume because he has made a world team before they always hold out on the hope that he can make another.

If German Fernandez can keep a contract then anyone who at least races can keep a contract.

cool bruh wrote:

JRinaldi wrote:

I'd be happy to move there and help coach the 800m crew...if they take some of the guys I already coach (1:44.40/1:46.51). 😄

You sound like a mammoth douche.

huh? you must be new here or just not a track fan. he coaches a cache of stud aussie runners. you just make yourself sound foolish when your posts reflect lack of knowledge or respect.

I agree with most of this post. I think BTC would be a rough place for most milers, as Jerry would try to make them a steepler or a 5k guy. Shelby Houlihan has hinted that she may do the steeple or the 5k outdoors and she's only been in the group a month. Anybody have an idea as to the OTC's training is like that causes all of these phenomenal middle distance runners to pick-up injuries?

I believe otc has struggled to find good medical staff.

The whole vibe of that group is so hokey dokey. They all went there because Row coached Symmonds, who's a savage that gets the job done at the end of the day and wanted it to rub off on them.

All those guys were probably so giddy to be training together, living together, etc. I feel like they put too much energy into their workouts and lifestyle. Guys like Symmonds just go put the work in day in and day out, don't sweat it too much, and then dig deep into the fire for the big races. Guys like Wheating have nothing left, he doesn't have the fire inside anymore. Dude is so shot. O'Lionaird is like an emo weirdo that I feel likes to lose in a sadistic way just to post 20 instagrams afterwards about how he's gonna come back stronger, etc. Mulder is a homie and an OG OTC guy, he just needs to get rid of the injuries and get rid of the malaise the other guys put on him. Jock is in the totally wrong group. Dude should be with Duane and Johnny Gray poppin that speed up a notch. Mac Fleet is an enigma. He's kinda like Centro in that he needs to be showing everyone he's the swag lord to perform well. I think he should go to OPJ with them, and stop worrying about instagram pics.

Greer comes off as such a weirdo. He's never going to run faster than 1:45. Should prob just quit if he doesn't make the olympic team.

minor leagues wrote:

Seriously, some serious bad results from that crew the last year and a half:

Wheating is always hurt; and Greer/jock/mulder are nowhere to even be seen. Even Aman is only a shade of what he used to be. What's the deal with this? I thought "Row knew"?

In a sentence, too much MD type training and not enough sprint training. A 1:44x = 52/52, that's a long sprint.

minor leagues wrote:

Seriously, some serious bad results from that crew the last year and a half:

Wheating is always hurt; and Greer/jock/mulder are nowhere to even be seen. Even Aman is only a shade of what he used to be. What's the deal with this? I thought "Row knew"?

In a sentence, too much MD type training and not enough sprint training. A 1:44x = 52/52, that's a long sprint.

swaglordflex wrote:

The whole vibe of that group is so hokey dokey. They all went there because Row coached Symmonds, who's a savage that gets the job done at the end of the day and wanted it to rub off on them. .....

Greer comes off as such a weirdo. He's never going to run faster than 1:45. Should prob just quit if he doesn't make the olympic team.

Um, you probably don't know Greer's PR is 1:44.91? Let's see if he can recover from prolonged injury and race his way onto the world team. He has a lot of fans that want to see him run. Even though you don't care for him, you're still talking about him.

this seems pretty spot on.

Absolutely this. Over $2,000,000/year spent on all these guys contracts, staff salaries, training trips, etc and a group littered with guys who have done 1-2 good races as post-collegiates every other year. Mackey with Brooks Beasts outside of Heath, even worse. Seems the sports is pretty easy as for as who to sign, why can't coaches develop them like NOP/Bowerman post-collegiately?

I have wondered about this. I have been struck by how many negative threads there are about NOP and to alesser extent bTC but people rarely talk about the other groups with lots of talented guys.

Beasts may even be better off than OTC Distance wise ( Of course OTC has Eaton, jesse Williams, filed eventers and whatnot)

But I mean the beasts had Loxsom set an american record ( a weak one I know) Symmonds win a US Champ, Katie Mackey won a DL Race, OTC isn;t doing so well even comparatively in mid d. And Brooks beasts never get top talent either.

o==ergerrg wrote:

no ducks please wrote:

Absolutely this. Over $2,000,000/year spent on all these guys contracts, staff salaries, training trips, etc and a group littered with guys who have done 1-2 good races as post-collegiates every other year. Mackey with Brooks Beasts outside of Heath, even worse. Seems the sports is pretty easy as for as who to sign, why can't coaches develop them like NOP/Bowerman post-collegiately?

Beasts may even be better off than OTC Distance wise ( Of course OTC has Eaton, jesse Williams, filed eventers and whatnot)

But I mean the beasts had Loxsom set an american record ( a weak one I know) Symmonds win a US Champ, Katie Mackey won a DL Race, OTC isn;t doing so well even comparatively in mid d. And Brooks beasts never get top talent either.

I completely agree with what you had to say here. However, OTC has Hassan Mead and Patrick Casey who are just one season away from being a top contender.

Hope you are right. Nike "asked" him to join OTC so he really had no choice. OTC coach thinks all 800 runners are mid distance types. Jock is out of the mold of the best 400/800 type ever, Alberto Juantorena.

Positive! He went to my school and lets just say one of his friends that stops by now and then told me. . I just hope he can get his pacing/tactics right because leading until 600m isn't working out for him. My former coach said Jock was so talented in HS and that didn't stop him from working less than others. He worked his ass off and that's why he was state champion and it proves where he's currently at.