aduck2002 wrote:
test for lr3 version for igf-1 for sure
but ignored.
gatlin not slower wit nike testos. system
if use wit roids watchout
aduck2002 wrote:
meldonium no used 4 endurance as such (hav epo) but to make igf-1 lr3 work better thru c.nervous.s
endurance of cns too
aduck2002 wrote:
new combo wit igf-1 lr3
.allow igf-1 but if guys start running to fast to obvious .not allowed.
ssssupercharged c.n.s
trollism wrote:
Redemption in your eyes?
So glad I've redeemed myself in the eyes of a mentally ill buffoon.
What's nuts about this is why it took so long, and why now? Forget 10 years like you said, as it looks like this has been out there for around 30 years (see 1991 Russian study in previous post).
webby wrote:
If any state running a doping program just needs to approve a PED for therapeutic use in order for it to be allowable in the (many) years before it is banned, it shows what a exercise in futility drug testing is. Clearly she wasn't suffering from heart problems, which is what the drug was approved to treat, I believe. And it took something like 10 years after its initial development before it was banned.
At the very least, athletes should have to declare the drugs that they are taking, demonstrate medical necessity, and agree that if a drug that they are taking is subsequently banned that they will retroactively forfeit medals and have records expunged. Perhaps that would result in an occasional injustice -- but the toothlessness of the current system is absurd.
Jon Orange wrote:
trollism wrote:
Redemption in your eyes?
So glad I've redeemed myself in the eyes of a mentally ill buffoon.
And this coming from the poster who said that women sprinters are slower because they don't take as many drugs as in the 80s but somehow the testing doesn't seem to work on men?
It would be nice to think that after all this time doping would either be eradicated or at least controlled.
Professionalism was always thought to be the death of this sport but of course even in the amateur era the Russians were sponsoring their athletes to train and the French were paying prize money behind closed doors.
Doping of course was rife in the amateur days, strychnine and brandy a popular choice. Then there were anabolic steroids and amphetamines. Blood transfusions, EPO and now popping poorly regulated/tested heart medicine just because it's legal. It all sounds nuts. These people aren't even Type A, they need a whole new personality definition.
But perhaps the craziest is they do all this only to go and get extorted by a bunch of fat cats in suits living in Monaco.
Level playing field no longer wrote:
Simpson's statements put her in a very bad light.
I wouldn't be surprised that she knows Aregawi is innocent.
This issue is not about drugs, but rather in getting your competitors banned.
This implicates Meadows and Simpson in the scheme.
trollism wrote:
Jon Orange wrote:
trollism wrote:
Redemption in your eyes?
So glad I've redeemed myself in the eyes of a mentally ill buffoon.
And this coming from the poster who said that women sprinters are slower because they don't take as many drugs as in the 80s but somehow the testing doesn't seem to work on men?
I always just assume you're trolling when you discuss this.
In the 80s, lots of women took very effective, but very easily detectable anabolic agents in order to effectively alter their gender from female to a lot closer to being male.
More effective testing, in particularly the addition of out of competition testing meant is was a lot more difficult for a woman to dope this way any longer and had to find other methods.
You are aware that some of these women ended up having sex changes due to the sheer amount of male hormone that they took? Are you suggesting this had zero effect on their performance.
Do you want me to explain why testosterone doping on men would have less of a profound effect than it does on women?
Jon Orange, how dare you keep telling the truth.
Thank you for posting. Can you please clarify what you mean when you make the distinction from cycling? From what I read elsewhere, cyclists are using this same drug. It seems to follow that some Ethiopian runners are following the path of cyclists. Maybe that has been true for some time and with other drugs. We cannot know and I think that is what is driving the concerns. Also, I am not sure why we should conclude that one drug and now another does not work.
Renato Canova wrote:
The new list of Ethiopian investigated for doping, probably involves one substance only, and this is MELDOMIUM.
WADA started to have suspects about this substance, because they cantinued to find it in the samples of cyclists. For that reason, they started to investigate the effects, and from 1st Jan 2016 decided to add to the list of prohibited substances.
It seems this substance was recently introduced in Ethiopia by some Turkish doctor. The medicine, in all its various names, can't be found in US and in many other European Countries (also not in Kenya), since it's not approved by the specific US commission. Why in Ethiopia only ? Probably for the connections they have with the communist Countries, looking at their recent history.
But at this point, we have to start to think about the "effects" of doping.
Is Meldonium REALLY useful ? And, if yes, why can be useful for Ethiopian only, and we don't find in other African Countries ?
Are the steroids involved in the 95% of the cases of doping in Kenya really effective ? And if yes, why rarely in other Countries we can find athletes positive at the same substance ?
The reality is that there are "Areas of influence" for different criminal organizations, exactly like in the drug market. So, in some area there are pushers of steroids, in other areas of Meldonium, in other areas of substances for covering some other doping.
While in cyclism, during Lance Armstrong's period, we could see cocktails of a lot of pharmacs, scientifically prepared, with a full pool of advanced doctors organizing every thing (and with a very high cost), in athletics we see simple doping, with athletes taking one illegal substance only, different from one area to another, and in the most part of cases very cheap, since they don't have money enough for some advanced doping (the cost of Meldonium seems to be about 2 USD per tablet).
So, this is my question : we don't discuss and not refuse the fact many African runner are now taking some illegal substance : this is a fact.
But the question is : how much effective these pharmacs can be, in the role of PEDs ?
I think in the mind of the athletes of today there is a clear overestimation of the effects on performances. This because seems doping is the main argument when we look at sport of today.
In this process, people of antidoping try to grow in importance, overrating the effects of many pharmacs that they don't know, and creating a widespread idea that all the best go to use some doping. But which doping ? The doping used by Ethiopian only ? Or the doping used by Kenyan only ? And with which control, and which organization at their shoulders ?
I was the first time in Kenya in 1998, and (apart the last two years when I was in China) normally I live 5-7 months in Iten every year. Also if I can personally say something changed (till 2010, I never heard some athletes asking for some supplement, today it seems everybody needs supplements for running slower than 10 years ago), I never had any suspicion about the best runners, since I coached athletes bettering WR who refused every kind of medicine, also when were sick (apart malaria). And these athletes were Shaheen, Nicholas Kemboi (moving in 2 months from 28'19" to 26'30" in 10000m, living in my same room in St. Moritz in 2003, so I perfectly know what he was eating and drinking), Moses Mosop, Florence Kiplagat, and also now I have athletes completely new and naive, like Ronald Kwemoi, who can become in two-three years the new WR holder of 5000m.
So, it's ridiculuous to say that there are limit under which it's possible to run only with external aid (legal or illegal).
The real battle against doping can't start with the idea that athletes can have a lot of advantage, but with the idea that is 99% completely USELESS (I speak about blood doping). We can accept the idea doping can be a shortcut FOR ACHIEVING THE SAME RESULTS of tough training, not the idea these results can become better.
I repeat again : I coach top African athletes from 18 years, and with them frequently I do common blood tests, in order to see their health (especially about Iron, Ferritine and Transferrin). NEVER I saw any link between high values of Hct and Hb and level of performances. For the same athlete, normally when the performance improved, the values became lower.
So, I think that the African athletes taking doping (and there are many) are the weakest under mental point of view, and don't have anybody able to guide them on a correct way of training. So, it's exactly the opposite of what the most part of people thinks : are free dogs without coach, and without good organization behind, who suppose to be able to fill the gap using some external aid (I repeat, for me legal or illegal are the same, because in any case is the same signal of weak mentality), and these athletes are abused by local doctors and pharmacists who put in their mind the idea doping can work for changing the performances of an athlete, from high-middle level to the top.
Abeba Aregawi in Ethiopia doesn't have any coach, but is her unofficial husband following her under technical point of view. This situation allows athletes to search individual solutions of every problem, without any real strategy. It's the technical confusion that brings athletes to look at some doping, not the reality of advantages in their performances.
Abeba had big problems in her back and in one leg during the last two years. Probably, she lost confidence looking at the great improvement of Genzebe and of Faith Kipyegon, and looked for something (at that time still legal) for recruiting the aerobic shape in shorter time.
But for reaching the top personal performances, there is a balance among the psychological situation, the methodological aspect and the level of the ambience around the athlete, that can't be reached working in one direction only. So, the most part of athletes doped, started to take PEDs AFTER having some problem, fearing not more possible to reach again the same levels (see the Italian walker Schwazer, winning 50 km walking in Beijing completely clean, and starting to look at doping in 2012, after one bad season in 2011), BUT WERE CLEAN WHEN THEY HAD FOR THE FIRST TIME THEIR BEST PERFORMANCES.
Top athletes can look at doping only when they discover their body is no longer able to sustain the same level of training, hoping to fill the gap in this way. Big mistake, because doping NEVER can replace the natural possibilities of a fresh mind and a fresh body, during the period of top motivation and when there is the opportunity to reach the best possible targets.
People don't use doping in order to conquest what they still don't have, but when they fear to lose what already have.
A well known Ethiopian runner was mentioned on a Kenyan talk show for strangely leaving the training camp with no reason given to other athletes and has been pulled from upcoming races. I don't have a name, male or female or the training group, but the training group obviously includes athletes from Kenya and Ethiopia. As best I can tell, this is a big fish and it is not Aregawi. There appears to be rift between Kenyan athletes feeling Ethiopian athletes are not getting the same doping scrutiny. I would be surprised if this name is not made public in a couple of days.
Also, this is not meant to speculate who this athlete is, but apparently Kenyans think Genzebe Dibaba is dirty and she has not gotten any where near the praise for her accomplishments as her sisters or Defar.
Make it six dopers. Kareiva has also tested positive.
So disgusting wrote:
jjjjj wrote:
Aregawi was actually the cause of Morgan Uceny's 2012 Olympic fall.
See the slow-motion view of the fall just after the race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWzqfiWRE9Q
That field had at least five dopers, including two-time world champion Tatyana Tomashova, Bulut and Cakir, the silver and gold winners, Kostetskaya, the former American high schooler, Aregawi, and two other Eastern European suspects. In the race, Aregawi was really challenging for the win until she faltered near the end. That year, she became the Ethiopian national record holder in 3:56.
Watching that video makes me sick to my stomach.
What a bunch of dirty, cheaters!
A later report in 2008 further demonstrated the efficacy of combined meldonium-lisinopril treatment by showing improved carotid baroreceptor reflex in patients with chronic heart failure.[8] In February 2010, the clinical trial testing the efficacy and safety of meldonium treatment in combination with standard exercise tolerance therapy on angina patients was successfully completed.[9] The studies revealed that meldonium treatment significantly improves the exercise tolerance.
or how to turn a 211 marathon into a 206.
TrackCoach wrote:
apparently Kenyans think Genzebe Dibaba is dirty and she has not gotten any where near the praise for her accomplishments as her sisters or Defar.
aregawi taken down but aden group left alone
wit clear message meldonium off card.
same message to cyclists
been around far to long never used 4 endurance.
elites heart should be at near max anyway.
endurance better if bad heart
used to enhance igf-1 lr3
who stumbled upon likely in east, ,no longer than 2-3 years. but then aden group picked up
aduck2002 wrote:
been around far to long never used 4 endurance.
elites heart should be at near max anyway.
endurance better if bad heart
Nope. But it looks good now that the doppers are going down.
very few russian runners using igf-1 lr3
so likely to see combo in other sports there but stil in infancy so few .
