Drew Hunter's coach predicts 3:55/8:2X this spring

OXYRUNR wrote:

Actually, German ran his 8:34 not much over an hour AFTER he ran a 4:00.xx 1600m. Having witnessed this meet and his performances, I can say that they were amazing!

No, no he didn't. That was a 3200. Was it more impressive than his 8:34 2 mile a couple weeks later. Yes. But that's only ~8:38 for a full 2 mile.

jjjjjj wrote:

Hunter recently closed mile repeats with a 4:13, which is about 5 seconds faster than Fernandez did as a freshman in college xc, and soon after gf ran 3:55i. His coach knows what he can do.

My indicator workout for the mile was always what I did my last mile repeat in the last XC season I had.

I am sure his coach knows what he can do really well, but not for that reason.

A 3:55 mile requires exceptional speed and strength. The two American hs athletes who have achieved that mark, (Ryun, Webb) could go well under 1:50 for the half as hs athletes. Hunter does not strike me as that kind of runner. 3:59 to maybe 3:57 high, ok. With an 800 pr of 1:52.98 (as far as I can tell) that seems to be hunter's ceiling for the time being.

Mile repeat workouts are definitely impressive but they are a lot more predictive of 5k performance than an open mile. I wish hunter all the best but the quality difference between 3:55.2 and 3:59. 6 is about the same as the difference between 4:02 and 4:10.

You only need to run 4:40/mile to set the record. The problem is that Veatch and Rocha might have been able to run even 4:40s with a pacer so DH went out to do something only he could do. Once he was alone running fast wasn't so important. That is also a problem with running 3:55.

The question about the 3:55 is not if DH can do it but what type of race would he need to do it? Webb and Ryun could have run their great times in just about any type of race. To run 3:55, DH will need a perfectly paced race with lots of guys first pacing and then racing him at the end. So that means a professional race with his own specific pacer, I just don't think he is going to get that type of support. Personally, I think he should go after his Dad's family 5000 record of 13:36.

jjjjjj wrote:

Hunter recently closed mile repeats with a 4:13, which is about 5 seconds faster than Fernandez did as a freshman in college xc, and soon after gf ran 3:55i. His coach knows what he can do.

Fernandez ran that on a cross country course, and soon after dropped out of the D1 cross country race.

4:13 is a 13:06 pace for 5000 meters, and was certainly the wrong training for this race.

NoNameXCfan wrote:

Also, he had had some minor upper hamstring soreness that he felt on the downhill and did not think it would be wise to push hard since he was winning at that point and still running a very solid time.

Wrong on 2 counts. First he shouldn't have been running 4:13 mile repeats, and secondly, he blasted down the flrst long hill out of control at top speed.

he tried a race strategy that was certainly effective if the goal was to win and run fast.

You must have been watching a different race than I did.

The problem is the Hunter Promotional Team (obviously his parents, his coach...maybe himself? (probably/hopefully not)...and other young, crazed fans) appears to have been actually starting and responding to threads on the Letsrun boards since the week of the Brooks 2 mile last year (maybe earlier). If you're going to participate and fan the flames, you better be ready for some opposing opinions.Alternatively, the Team Fisher approach last year was always downplay expectations, concentrate on winning more national titles (7 total between junior and senior cross country, indoor, and outdoor seasons...and 7 out of 8 overall...the one loss being to Hunter at Brooks 2 mile), and quietly have confidence that the times will likely come. Owning cross country, indoor, and outdoor over your final two years, along with breaking 4:00 in the mile solidifies his all-time status. He left high school with six (6) mile-equivalent (1500m-Mile) races of 4:02.02 or better, an 8:43 2 Mile, and two Footlocker titles. And based on all that we've heard, he did this while rarely exceeding 50 mpw.Anyway, you cannot tell me that Hunter Promotional Team is not disappointed with that 14:55. I'm not saying he isn't capable of going faster; he certainly is. But don't tell me the plan was to put his best effort forth at FL South and then "just win" at FLN. That's just not consistent with HPT's approach.12 seconds may be "thrashing the field"...but Fisher opened up a comparable gap over just the final 2:00 of the race last year.I'm not a Hunter doubter either. He's going to run real fast this winter and spring, and it's going to be fun to watch. Less fun will be reading HPT's posts while he's doing it.

Trialswatcher wrote:

You really gotta love the Letsrun message boards.

Guy sets a slew of course records, thrashes field at FL by 12 seconds, at one point up by 17, and the reviews range from disappointing , to "worst event".

Also there is plenty of reason to think Hunter will go sub 4 indoors and close to 3:56 or better outdoors in a set up race.

he also does not really have to do anything to be considered an All Time great.

Check out the number of guys that ran 4:02.x mile (not 1600) and 8:42.x two mile (not 3200), that list is pretty friggin short

.And those are his junior times and he is clearly better this year and by a bit.

Webb ran 4:03.xx as a HS Junior. Keep that in mind, Hunter is already 3 seconds faster at two miles than the great time Webb ran Indoors.

Heck, he was pushing the pace by himself, just imagine if he had been pushed. 7 or 8 runners went sub 15 in the 1985 boys race. Hunter was up by 7 seconds at the mile, 14 at 1.5, 17 at 2, 16 at 2.5, 15 at 3, and won by 12. The pack behind him was racing for second.

Kind of shows he went for it and it had heated up since the girls race.

Splits on dye stat

markpryor2 wrote:

http://footlockercrosscountry.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=14&do=videos&video_id=159121

and sub-4 indoors. thinks he's in 8:34 shape now.

He was certainly dominant at the FLNC, but no more so than a dozen other winners who didn't go on to run sub-4 indoors. With that said, it is really hard to say what he is capable of because he was wasn't challenged at FLNC, although, I think he would have went after the record if he though he could have gotten it. If I knew how his training was going would probably be the best indicator, being able to string together several fast intervals with minimal rest and compare that to other sub-4 guys gives a good clue. Until I see him run a 1:50 800m, the 3:55 I saw someone quote is almost impossible. I don't care how strong you are, Lindgren, Ritz, Verzbicas, Fisher and Fernandez for example were all very strong, but you need enough fast-twitch speed to string together sub-60 second 800s without feeling like you are sprinting. Breaking 4 or perhaps 3:58 is a worthy goal, but unless you have Ryun and Webb type 800 credentials, you are not getting close to 3:55.

i agree with you, Link.the only high school miler to ever be considered on par with jim ryun is allan webb, in my opinion. he had some brilliant moments (3:53 wowza!), but even ryun made it to the olympics when he was 17. no high schooler since ryun can say that, right?it seems like being the GOAT in high school is a curse on your career. although Webb got an American record and has the best Letsrun thread headline attributed to him: WEBB IS BACK, BABY!

I can promise you that none of the people on this thread are Tinman, his parents, or Hunter himself. We're all just overexcited fanboys. And don't deify the Fisher approach either. I seem to recall his coach saying something along the lines of "sub-4 is just a matter of the right race," and he got crucified. And let's not forget that Fisher was overcooked by Brooks and USATF juniors. Notice that Hunter never said before the race that he wanted the record; notice that what Hunter has said afterward has been nothing but positive about his own performance, even if he wishes there was more competition. The people fanning the flames aren't his camp, but overeager fans like myself. By all means, get annoyed at us, but don't misdirect your hate to the kid himself.

Your immense love to troll...I love it. That was the most stupidest post I've ever seen. Oh yeah you guys, hunter sucks btw. He was lucky to win footlocker, if the chase pack went out with him, rocha or veatch would outlast him. Hunter didn't even beat grant fisher either.

I wrote the training for Drew Hunter.

waitandsee wrote:

Yikes` wrote:

That interview is embarrassing.

Only if he doesn't back it up.

I found it a little embarrassing too, and not because of the predictions.

Tinman was kind of going on tangents about his own training philosophy a little there, which weren't part of the questions, which I thought was a little uncomfortable.

I did like how he praised Andy Powell though.

"That was the most stupidest post "

- Beautiful irony strikes again!

Yikes` wrote:

markpryor2 wrote:http://footlockercrosscountry.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=14&do=videos&video_id=159121

and sub-4 indoors. thinks he's in 8:34 shape now.

That interview is embarrassing.

More substance than most interviews. No holding back on how he really feels.

I would appreciate more interviews like that.

FillEsten wrote:

I wrote the training for Drew Hunter.

You mean, WE wrote the training for Drew Hunter.

I don't think the "worst event" comments had anything to do with Hunter. The feed at FL died in the race, and that left anyone who wasn't actually there unable to see what was going on.

He will indeed have to do more to be considered an All-Time great. There are honestly too many people with superior performances in both categories right now. Think about it for a moment. If someone were to ask you to make a Top-10 List of HS distance runners, would Hunter make it right now?

There are certain people who inarguably could stamp their places on there:

- Webb for his Mile

- Ryun for his Mile coupled with his world-class performances at the time

- Verzbicas for his 2Mile as well as his incredible spread

- Gerry Lindgren for his Indoor 2Mile coupled with his world-class performances at the time

The individuals above may not consist of the Top 4, as there may be some in the bottom categories who, based on differing opinions, have a stronger claim to a higher position (ex. Someone might think Ritz' cross country prowess should put him ahead of LV). However, they can't be excluded from the Top 10, because their achievement just warrants that they're there.

There are other people who have a VERY strong claim to a Top-10 position, and who gets in may differ based on the judge:

- Ritz for his XC prowess (he could potentially be in the category above)

- Rupp for his 5K, although it's not frequently run

- Chapa for his 10K, although it's not frequently run

- Cheserek for his Mile/2Mile/5K combo

- Virgin for his XC prowess and his 8:40 2Mile

- Jeff Nelson for his 8:36 2-Mile record that stood for 30+ years

- Prefontaine

- Fernandez for his 4:00/8:34/8:34 combo

- A few others, such as Hulst, Hunt, Danielson, Liquori, etc.

All Hunter has going for him is a pretty good Mile - 2Mile combo, but that's basically arguing that he has a good spread. There's really no good reason to put him on one of the above lists.

I don't know what race you watched, but I didn't see a disappointing race at FLCCC. I certainly don't think he had what it takes to take down the record. I think he had the talent, but he wasn't running fast enough to do it.

On the track side of things, I agree with you. I think we'll get to see another sub-4 from Hunter, but not a 4:55. I think he'll do it indoors as well. I dont know the 3200 well enough to make an accurate prediction.