My daughter is a 10th grader probably unable to run D1 (18:52 5K best). However, for the first time she is starting to pay attention to NCAAs. After she saw Wetmore, her response was "yuck - who would want to run for him". She for one, much liked Franklin at the press conference.
Yeah, sorry, coaches like Franklin don't really have the time to work with athletes like your daughter. There's a handful that are currently running 16:00 over in the UK...soooo....sorry hun. It's all about winning in the National Collegiate Athletic Association.
Just FYI wrote:
My daughter is a 10th grader probably unable to run D1 (18:52 5K best). However, for the first time she is starting to pay attention to NCAAs. After she saw Wetmore, her response was "yuck - who would want to run for him". She for one, much liked Franklin at the press conference.
Yeah, she knows she needs to be ALOT faster to even get on the radar. A local sub-10:15 3200 girl (no FL or NXN experience) only heard from two small local colleges in upstate NY.
Point is - she thought Wetmore was creepy, while thought Franklin seemed like a nice guy. This means nothing - I know....
The irony. Yeah, why would a non-elite runner ever want to run for a coach with a history of getting solid results from just such HS runners (e.g. unheralded runner from Hawaii to 3rd at NCAAs). Your daughter may want to exercise her analytical skills along with her legs.
actually coach franklin would probably love to have your daughter on his team. Sure she'd be a long shot to make the travel squad, or even score any scholarship $, but UNM is cheap (I pay less than $8000/yr, and its all free b/c of grade based scholarships- i'm not on the team), Abq is an amazing place to enjoy the outdoors, and it's close to a metro airport, so she could get home in a jiffy to visit you. He's always up for more training partners and diamonds in the rough, I've seen that firsthand. just food for thought.
innocent question wrote:
why are so many from GB?
Why are so many past and present runners at Providence College from Ireland?
Just FYI wrote:
Yeah, she knows she needs to be ALOT faster to even get on the radar. A local sub-10:15 3200 girl (no FL or NXN experience) only heard from two small local colleges in upstate NY.
Point is - she thought Wetmore was creepy, while thought Franklin seemed like a nice guy. This means nothing - I know....
Maybe that sub 10:15 girl needs to send Wetmore an email rather than just waiting by the phone for coaches to call. He has women on his roster with high school PRs higher than that who have become all-americans. There are plenty of teams that could use a 10:15 kid.
screamingncreaming wrote:
Yeah, sorry, coaches like Franklin don't really have the time to work with athletes like your daughter. There's a handful that are currently running 16:00 over in the UK...soooo....sorry hun. It's all about winning in the National Collegiate Athletic Association.
It's much more likely that Wetmore wouldn't have time for her.
Wetmore also is in a long term relationship with a former athlete that had a debated and sketchy start time.
UNM has signed Alex Buck for next year who is a great US talent from Indiana.
i care bout it wrote:
This is moronic. Already developed imports? Your dog could be as successful? Shortcuts?
First, lets see how many top 10 teams are actually only recruiting Americans.
#1 New Mexico - Already established they have a bunch of foreign athletes.
#2 Colorado - 0 foreign athletes on their roster
#3 Oregon - 4 foreign athletes on their roster(Norway, Canada, Australia, South Africa)
#4 Providence - 4 foreign athletes on their roster(Switzerland, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland)
#5 NC State - 2 foreign athletes on their roster(Canada, Austalia)
#6 Michigan - 2 foreign athletes on their roster(Canada, Austalia)
#7 Ok State - 6 foreign athletes on their roster(UK, Norway, UK, Lithuania, Norway, Lithuania)
#8 Notre Dame - 0 foreign athletes on their roster
#9 Arkansas - 4 foreign athletes on their roster(UK, Canada, South Africa, Australia)
#10 Washington - 1 foreign athlete on their roster(Canada)
So 2 of the top 10 programs have only Americans. Guess just about everyone is taking your shortcut.
Now lets see how New Mexico's Athletes have done since coming in
Courtney Frerichs - Arrived Fall of 2015. 13th in 2014, 4th in 2015. Was already great but still improved.
Alice Wright - Arrived Fall of 2013. Was Injured all of 2011-2012 and 2012-213 before arriving at New Mexico. PR before arriving was 9:39 3k. Now runs 15:45 and 32:46. Massive improvement and has stayed healthy since arriving.
Rhona Auckland - Arrived Fall of 2015. Was amazing before arriving. Only top 7 athlete that you can legitimately say hasn't gotten better since coming to New Mexico.
Calli Thackery - Arrived Fall of 2013. Had 4:21 and 9:27 PRs coming in. Now has 4:15 and 9:07 PRs. Improved every year at NCAAs in xc.
Molly Renfer - Arrived Fall of 2015. Went from 18th in the Northeast region to 24th in the whole NCAA. Massive improvement.
Heleene Tambet - Arrived Fall of 2013. Had a 17:37 5k PR coming in. Now has run 16:48 and 34:32. Massive improvement.
Whitney Thornburg - Arrived Fall of 2015. Went from 42nd in the Northeast region to 109 in the NCAA. Large improvement.
There is a case for saying Frerichs and Auckland were already great before coming and Frerichs still improved. For the other 5, they have improved dramatically to get where they were.
Don't like foreign athletes in the NCAA? Just about everyone that's good does it. Think its a simple matter of bringing in talent and collecting a 1st place trophy? Tell that to Stanford and Oregon. Those two schools have more talent than the rest of the NCAA combined and got demolished by New Mexico.
Notre Dame has Seidel, who is from Wisconsin. So there not afraid to take Canadians.
Your argument that having a roster full of foreigners somehow makes your university more appealing to international students in laughable. New Mexico had 1,354 international students out of 27,353 in Fall 2015, or just under 5%. Contrast that with Colorado who had 2,558 out of 30,789 or 8.3%, in spite of the fact that they don't have a foreigner on their Xcountry roster (Who knows, maybe it is the ski team that is bringing them all in). Truth be told, most of the international students come from Asia and the middle east and probably could care less about the athletic programs.
[quote]tax argument baseless wrote:
The main point, however, is that NM tax payers are only financing a fraction of UNMs budget (and thus scholarships). This is in contrast to those who post comments as if they are personally fully-funding someone else's free ride.
I looked again and see that 12% number next to "State Appropriations - Operating." Not sure where you get the 20-28% estimate.... Tuition is only 8.2% of total revenue, and you can't tell how much is from out-of-state from this document, but I agree that it is probably a low amount for UNM. From here (
https://geo.unm.edu/all_handouts/Continuing_Student_Statistics.pdf
) we can see that roughly 5.7% of UNM total student body are international students (1,485 in total) - more than enough to fund a few scholarships for foreign athletes.
Total aside - most UNM revenue appears to come from the hospital system, which is also probably where most of their expenses lie as well. Anyhow, this large revenue stream lowers the percent coming from the State of NM. Maybe you excluded this revenue from calculations to push it up to 20-28% range. Doesn't matter - as the main point still holds.[
Nobody mentions that Frerichs came to UNM from UMKC with Coach Butler who returned to UNM as assistant coach. Do you think Frerichs would have transferred to UNM if Coach Butler had stayed at UMKC? I would give credit to Frerichs development to her hard work and the good work of Coach Butler.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with UNM's strategy. The goal of cross country is to win. Not to win with American-born runners only.
The tax argument is ludicrous.
If enough people in New Mexico are against this, they will pass a law that forbids athletic scholarships at state schools to non nationals.
I'm surprised we haven't had any complaints about UTEP!?!? Or is it okay to have a roster with foreigners as long as you don't win?
Aboot Right wrote:
i care bout it wrote:This is moronic. Already developed imports? Your dog could be as successful? Shortcuts?
First, lets see how many top 10 teams are actually only recruiting Americans.
#1 New Mexico - Already established they have a bunch of foreign athletes.
#2 Colorado - 0 foreign athletes on their roster
#3 Oregon - 4 foreign athletes on their roster(Norway, Canada, Australia, South Africa)
#4 Providence - 4 foreign athletes on their roster(Switzerland, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland)
#5 NC State - 2 foreign athletes on their roster(Canada, Austalia)
#6 Michigan - 2 foreign athletes on their roster(Canada, Austalia)
#7 Ok State - 6 foreign athletes on their roster(UK, Norway, UK, Lithuania, Norway, Lithuania)
#8 Notre Dame - 0 foreign athletes on their roster
#9 Arkansas - 4 foreign athletes on their roster(UK, Canada, South Africa, Australia)
#10 Washington - 1 foreign athlete on their roster(Canada)
So 2 of the top 10 programs have only Americans. Guess just about everyone is taking your shortcut.
Now lets see how New Mexico's Athletes have done since coming in
Courtney Frerichs - Arrived Fall of 2015. 13th in 2014, 4th in 2015. Was already great but still improved.
Alice Wright - Arrived Fall of 2013. Was Injured all of 2011-2012 and 2012-213 before arriving at New Mexico. PR before arriving was 9:39 3k. Now runs 15:45 and 32:46. Massive improvement and has stayed healthy since arriving.
Rhona Auckland - Arrived Fall of 2015. Was amazing before arriving. Only top 7 athlete that you can legitimately say hasn't gotten better since coming to New Mexico.
Calli Thackery - Arrived Fall of 2013. Had 4:21 and 9:27 PRs coming in. Now has 4:15 and 9:07 PRs. Improved every year at NCAAs in xc.
Molly Renfer - Arrived Fall of 2015. Went from 18th in the Northeast region to 24th in the whole NCAA. Massive improvement.
Heleene Tambet - Arrived Fall of 2013. Had a 17:37 5k PR coming in. Now has run 16:48 and 34:32. Massive improvement.
Whitney Thornburg - Arrived Fall of 2015. Went from 42nd in the Northeast region to 109 in the NCAA. Large improvement.
There is a case for saying Frerichs and Auckland were already great before coming and Frerichs still improved. For the other 5, they have improved dramatically to get where they were.
Don't like foreign athletes in the NCAA? Just about everyone that's good does it. Think its a simple matter of bringing in talent and collecting a 1st place trophy? Tell that to Stanford and Oregon. Those two schools have more talent than the rest of the NCAA combined and got demolished by New Mexico.
Notre Dame has Seidel, who is from Wisconsin. So there not afraid to take Canadians.
Nothing in here suggests that the UNM coach had anything to do with these girls' improvements. They start with a good resume and all the coach has to do is stay out of their way and don't ruin them. Plus, they all come from a structured club background and they bring their good training habits with them. INSTANT TEAM!
Mountain Region Rules wrote:
Of course Franklin doesn't look at the UNM budgets - like other coaches he just gets his allocation of money and then goes shopping for the best students he can find to run XC and track. His mission from the AD is pretty clear: as he said, he is expected to get the top NM runner and then get the best from anywhere in the world. This year he did exactly that. I'd expect him to get a nice raise or bonus this year!
Also - sure he would love to have US runners of the capability/potential of Wright and Auckland choose to come to UNM, but he didn't (and you can see how few there are at that level), and so he'd been freakin' crazy to turn them away. Also would have been nuts to tell Frerichs to run elsewhere.
I think he cares very little about what other coaches think... as he knows they are all wondering why they didn't pursue Auckland, Frerichs and Renfer.
By the way - great coaching job with Renfer - amazing improvement from last year. Though some on this board will for sure say that anyone could have improved her that much given the talent she was training around.
woof woof woof go lobos!
I think you hit the nail on the head. It's about MONEY. The only way he gets his bonus is if he wins. He knows that he can't recruit American kids and develop him (his weakness) so he goes straight for the internationals who are proven winners. Then he doesn't have to do a thing and can sit back and be big man on campus. Thanks for pointing that out for us. Money ruins everything.
Mountain Region Rules wrote:
Of course Franklin doesn't look at the UNM budgets - like other coaches he just gets his allocation of money and then goes shopping for the best students he can find to run XC and track. His mission from the AD is pretty clear: as he said, he is expected to get the top NM runner and then get the best from anywhere in the world. This year he did exactly that. I'd expect him to get a nice raise or bonus this year!
Also - sure he would love to have US runners of the capability/potential of Wright and Auckland choose to come to UNM, but he didn't (and you can see how few there are at that level), and so he'd been freakin' crazy to turn them away. Also would have been nuts to tell Frerichs to run elsewhere.
I think he cares very little about what other coaches think... as he knows they are all wondering why they didn't pursue Auckland, Frerichs and Renfer.
By the way - great coaching job with Renfer - amazing improvement from last year. Though some on this board will for sure say that anyone could have improved her that much given the talent she was training around.
woof woof woof go lobos!
Is Wetmore 'freaking crazy' for turning away potential international runners? How many titles has he won without them? New Mexico coach isn't fit to tie Wetmore's shoes.
UNM women won. They won within framework of current rules. I wouldn't mind a NCAA rule stating at least half of all D1, D2 &D3 varsity athletes must be US Citizens. International diversity is fine. It appears UNM is seeking Soldiers of Fortune. Hired mercenaries. Are you telling me two females transferred from Harvard, a top #3 ranked university to UNM for the STUNDENT athlete experience? Yes, UTEP will need to recruit some Texas kids.
NO WAY Wetmore would have turned away Auckland if for some reason she approached him early last year instead of UNM. He might not have given her scholarship funds - but would have definitely had her on the NCAA starting line.
By the way - does anyone even know if Auckland and/or Wright are FULL scholarship runners? Did Auckland accept any scholarship funds? Maybe not given that UNM is pretty low cost to attend (relative to others). Not sure if that info is a matter of public record.
I wonder if any of the UNM transfers feel that the victory is a little hollow - that it means less because they ran just one season, win the championship and then they were done.
It has to be a little compromised compared to a team full of four year athletes...