Need to get to 13:40s in 2 years, currently at 14:50s shape

Oh come on. What are the criteria for a thread to make the front page?! Because this one is contemptibly stupid.

I'm going to reply as if this were a serious question.

What you need to do is:

* Listen to your coach. If your coach is a total idiot (many HS coaches are), they'll probably do too much speed work and not enough miles. Find someone knowledgeable to help you. They'll probably suggest something like--Supplement your training will doubles 2X a week and a long run 1X a week. Ramp your mileage slowly. Listen to your body. Be sure to not just do LSD. Include some training at / near race pace.

* Do supplemental strength training and stretching.

* Recover. Take the easy days easy. Sleep. A lot.

* Go to a college program that can challenge you. If you really want to run 13:40s, you should go to a program that has produced guys of that caliber. That's a short list--Michigan, Oregon, Stanford, Colorado, BYU, Wisco, OK State, Villanova. Maybe a few others.

* Pray that you don't get injured. Running the volume and intensity of miles to run 13:40s breaks most (like 80%+) guys.

* Pray that you have the talent. Even if the miles don't break you, then you may top out at, say, 14:00. It happens all the time. There are tons of sub 15 guys who do everything right and never get to sub 14, let alone 13:40s. As a benchmark, I'd say that you probably need to be a sub 9 3200 guy in HS to have a remote shot at 13:40s.

* Set incremental goals along the way. 13:40s is unrealistic for now. Break 15:00 first. Then, 14:50, etc.

The chances of you clearing all of these hurdles is low. Maybe 2%. But it can be done. Good luck!

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

Oh come on. What are the criteria for a thread to make the front page?! Because this one is contemptibly stupid.

One of the criteria is that the thread is started by someone who works for letsrun.com

They get bored and they think it's funny to troll like this.

Don't underestimate the benefit of being driven by competition from other runners. In your case as a 16 year-old you will probably benefit more from focusing on running well at the two-mile (or 3k or 3200m). This is a better intermediate goal because that is what your best rivals are trying to do right now and it is also a more natural stepping stone where you can have success before you build the strength to really race the 5000m.

Aside from racing rivals you would benefit from having strong training partners as well. Preferably a couple of guys that are a little bit ahead of you, are smart in training, and are interested in getting much better just like you are.

Then there is your coach. You seem to have found one already but if you are serious you can't be afraid to reevaluate whether he or she is the right person to get you there. They don't need to be a big name but they need to do roughly the same things as all the big name coaches. For the most part good college coaches, great high school coaches, and pro coaches will all tell you things that are 95% the same, and then their individual style will determine the last 5% of the training program. You need to have a coach who roughly follows that first 95% of the training, and equally important you need to believe in this person.

As far as the training, from the little we know it sounds like you are skimping on the threshold work. When you transition from a base phase to a VO2 max phase you should probably be doing 2-4 tempo runs per month. At your age I would suggest 4-6 mile tempos. This will help your PR at your next peak but more importantly this kind of threshold training will have a longer-lasting benefit than track work. Make sure you are not racing these efforts and you can settle into a pace where you are breathing steadily. Your legs should be starting to burn around halfway and just getting bad when you finish, so you could run another two miles at the same pace if you really needed to.

Let us know what pace you can settle into for a tempo as well as your two mile and mile PR's.

FutureOlyGoldMedalist wrote:

Jon Orange wrote:

So you think are capable of 12.40s?

Well maybe you are, but I would wager a large sum that you will lose interest after a few years, before you even beat 13.30

Do you want to take that bet?

Sure, I'll take that bet. You know I'm only 16 right? I got a lot in the tank, baby. Do YOU want to take that bet?

Whether you are trolling (which I think you are) I hate you. You are either an annoying 16 yr old that is way too full of himself or someone that just doesnt know how to troll because this tread is just stupid and not funny at all.

Whether you are trolling or not*

You leave out a lot of details:

How old are you? What are your PB's at 800, 1500 or 1600 (or mile), 3k or 3200, 10k? What is your actual 5k PB, not just what you are capable of? How many miles a week do you run? How many years have you been running? What has your mileage progression been?

FutureOlyGoldMedalist wrote:

Jon Orange wrote:

So you think are capable of 12.40s?

Well maybe you are, but I would wager a large sum that you will lose interest after a few years, before you even beat 13.30

Do you want to take that bet?

Sure, I'll take that bet. You know I'm only 16 right? I got a lot in the tank, baby. Do YOU want to take that bet?

Kid, calm down I broke 14:40 when I was 16 and was only doing a 10 mile long run. My PR when I started running 3 years prior was 24:xx. I can say I'm more talented and still I'm still not a cocky little sh*t like you.

i would disagree with training being the big variable here..... it's more about diet.... just diet alone

Has been hadley wrote:

Please explain.

FutureOlyGoldMedalist wrote:

THANK YOU! Finally

The verb, "to need" is meaningless without an accompanying "in order to".

For example, "I need some peanut butter in order to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich" is both correct and properly uses the aforementioned verb.

On the other hand, "I need some peanut butter in order to go swimming" is probably incorrect but does use the verb correctly.

Many fail to understand this and think that "need to" is some sort of absolute - a higher order imperative than "to want". "future burn-out" appears to have made this error.

So, the OP states that he "needs to" accomplish something without supplying the requisite "in order to". While this is bad form we should allow the OP license to determine his "in order to" in whatever way makes sense for him.

Thus, it is NOT correct to say:

"you WANT to get to 13:40. you don't NEED to."

The OP may well NEED to, depending upon his chosen "in order to" clause.

People need to concentrate on the subject, rather than hating.

What any 5K runner needs to do is get lots of miles in training. Read what Arthur Lydiard had to say about training. Follow his program.

This means marathon training in the summer, all but the last 5 weeks of fall, all winter, and again all but the last 5 weeks of spring. Run lots of 16 milers that's for Shirley!!! Now all this does not mean that you have to run everything slow. (Lydiard actually said all but the last 6 weeks should be marathon training, but his mileage standards remained high even during the end of track and cc. I advocate a little more speed. The main thing is to work the aerobic system and it must be done all year long, even during the peaking phase!!!)

At least one day per week, should be devoted to speed, all year. During your CC and track seasons, add at least one interval day each week, to the speed day. (What is speed? True speed is probably lots of 80s or shorter. But intervals must be longer.)

A typical week during the summer might look like this:

Everyday MUST include a warm up jog of at least one mile, Stretch, running drills; and on Tempo and Fartlek days 8 x 100 before and afterwards!

A warm down should also follow each work out. This could consist

of a 2 mile jog and 4 x 50 strides. Stretch!

Sunday: 15 miles

Monday: A.M. 8 miles P.M. 4 miles Tempo run

Tuesday: 15 miles

Wednesday: A.M. 4 miles P.M. 4 miles Fartlek (20 x 50 meters fast)

Thursday: 15 miles

Friday: A.M. 4 miles easy P.M. 8 miles Tempo run

Saturday: 22 miles

Total Miles: 100 or more. Keep in mind that many of the miles are

at a relatively easy pace to recover from the harder, faster efforts.

Read Arthur Lydiard, and obviously one must build up to this!!!

In season training for both CC and track includes a lot more speedwork but not until the last six weeks. However there must be some tempo and fartlek workouts among your in-season stuff. The mileage totals may go down a little bit but, you must still run long every three days or so. You are after all a 13:00 5K Olympic runner. I will follow this with an in-season program.

Read Arthur Lydiard. One of the problems with doing that is that there is so much written on him that most people, myself included, do not really know what he did.

You will need natural ability to run a 13:00 5K. So do yourself a favor and run lots of miles during the off-season to see what you can truly be, then ask for more!!! I would not do either my previous schedule or this one. First run 30 miles per week, then 40 miles per week, etc.!!! It may take you a year to get to 100 miles per week and that is only if you have great talent. A 13:00 5K runner cannot take time off!!!

Example of In-Season CC for September (Arthur Lydiard):

Warmup well: 1 mile jog or more, Stretch, dynamic running drills every day;

on speed days add 8 x 100 before and after the main workout.

Warmdown: Usually 2 miles very easy followed by 4 x 50 at 70%. Stretch!!!

Sunday: 15 miles

Monday: A.M. 4 miles P.M. 4 miles fartlek (20 x 50)

Tuesday 15 miles

Wednesday A.M. 4 miles P.M. 8 x 400 with 200 jogs (you have done these

before many times this year!!!)(or a 5 mile tempo run with each mile faster than the previous one.

Thursday 15 miles

Friday A.M. 4 miles P.M. 4 x 1200 meters w/400 jogs between

Saturday 15 miles

(Actually Lydiard did not do intervals like I have described above. What he would do is take the individual to the track and have him do a fast run, jog to recover, then do another, until the runner was pleasantly tired. He did not time any of the hard runs. They also did not worry about the number! The key was...did he put in a good effort and feel strong afterwards!)

During the last 5 weeks the long runs get shorter but faster. The intervals

stay at a similar distance but are run faster with more recovery. You might want to put in an interval or fartlek run with short recoveries too.

My main emphasis would be on the warm ups and warm downs. They are crucial. Aerobic running is constant, variety of speeds is necessary though.

You are running faster with less recovery at the end of the season. It has to be a good mix.

30, 40, take an easy week, Do you feel, good, great! 40, 50, take an easy week, 50, 60, How do you feel??? Perhaps we are going about this the wrong way babe!

If you think that you can reach 12:40s for 5k, first make sure you meet these criteria. Most (if not all) runners who have run 12:4x have had these characteristics

You must be from Kenya, Ethiopia, or Morocco. (Mourhit doped)

You must have world junior titles (get crackin; you have 2 years).

You must have a high altitude training location.

You must run 100 miles (161 km) per week (with necessary percentages of speedwork etc.)

Just guessing, you only feasibly could meet one of these. Based on the LRC demographic, you are American, and should focus on 800, 1500, Mile. You could probably have better success in that. Unless one has overwhelming natural talent, I don't see why they would want to subject themselves to more than 4 and a bit laps on a track. It sucks). Also, you noted that you haven't raced 5000m in a while, so what is your Mile PR? That would be helpful to all of us.

This information is only relevant if you are not trolling. It is likely that you are, so just take this as helpful but unrelated information.

All you have to do is get a doctor to be your new coach. Almost all great runners have doctors as their coach. You need to make sure your blood is clean before and after competition, but not during.

great input.

but keep in mind that (right now) OP ticks all the boxes being a college-loudmouth. golden rule: real talents observe silence and discipline and run in the heat, in the rain, in the snow, every single day.

LM wrote:

FutureOlyGoldMedalist wrote:

Sure, I'll take that bet. You know I'm only 16 right? I got a lot in the tank, baby. Do YOU want to take that bet?

http://longbets.org/

Would you like to organize the long bet and post the link?

formerD1 wrote:

If you are running in the 14:50s with solid training and mileage and no extenuating circumstances (like you just started running this year or you are still in high school), then you have no hope of getting down to 13:40s.

But if you were doing 14:50s with crappy HS training, or you run at some D3 program, then yes, your body may be capable of 13:40s. Training is the big variable here, but the most important constant is your natural ability.

Let's here more about what training and running history got you to your 14:50s.

^This. Yeah 14:50 is a long, long, long way off of 13:40. 13:40 talent is pretty rare - not saying it's not possible, but how 'bout getting under 14:20 first.

Thank you sir. Appreciate it, means a lot to me.

scrub wrote:

FutureOlyGoldMedalist wrote:

Sure, I'll take that bet. You know I'm only 16 right? I got a lot in the tank, baby. Do YOU want to take that bet?

Kid, calm down I broke 14:40 when I was 16 and was only doing a 10 mile long run. My PR when I started running 3 years prior was 24:xx. I can say I'm more talented and still I'm still not a cocky little sh*t like you.

Well, you definitely started it :D

What's your lifetime PR?