Mary Cain and over-training

Coach^3 wrote:

Bleu wrote

I'm not buying it. If she was doing the "crazy" workouts claimed then why was she hanging out of her uniform. If she crossed trained and lifted why didn't she have a hint of a bicep. The rest of the team looks like they overtrain Cain does not. People believe anything elites say.

Agreed. I think Cain believes what she's saying, but I think time will tell that's not what caused her drop in performance.

She's heavier.

Good for her for staying healthy physically by not just starving herself and getting her times back down, because that's not sustainable. I do think she'll have to learn how to diet down ahead of championship races. Also have to learn how to diet back "up" right after so she doesn't walk the razors edge longer than absolutely necessary.

:

That's also what I think. The drop in her performance was due to her body maturing...becoming wider and heavier. Saying it was due to "overtraining" may be hoping that getting fast again can be easily corrected. Her two races since returning to NY are not convincing.

Nailed it, IMO. Mary doesn't have the body of an overtrainer. She has physically matured and has grown heavier which is a very natural thing but her performances have suffered because of it.

Man

you guys are DUMB

Father Joe wrote:

New city, new school, new classes, tougher course load, away from parents, new training group, different food, different friends ,,,oF COURSE she went home.

You guys know running but you sure don't know kids or girls or life in general.

Can you name any other future elite females who fled for home after one year?

You can diet but there is no way of narrowing hips once they start to travel in opposite directions.

Dumb logic wrote:

Can you name any other future elite females who fled for home after one year?

How about Rupp? He couldn't handle the pressure of being a pro and went to college where it was far easier for him to finish near the top in races.

Kruppe wrote:

rojo:

Is this a well known principle, i.e. you see the benefits of training after a full season? Suppose your athlete tanks a series of races, do you still have them finish the season or do you pull the plug and have them take a few weeks completely off?

TrackCoach:

From her races, she did fall back very early and seemed to be completely out of contention before the 800m mark. I also find it hard to believe that a famous coach and his staff would miss overtraining symptoms. How do you distinguish over-training from the athlete simply giving up mentally during races?

Indoor:

This is to all the coaches on here, do you really take your athletes at face value when they say "I'm doing ok"?

I wish Ms. Cain the best and hope she performs to her expectations.

AlSal is a great coach, but working with a teenage female 800/mile prodigy like Cain was something new to him. I suspect AlSal started with a certain volume and Cain kelp exceeding his expectations in races and in training, which made it only natural to reach for more. The training probably started with goals of 2:02 and 4:05, but when you run 1:59/4:01 and win national championships etc., it is almost impossible to hold a kid back from doing the same workout as her teammates who she is beating in races. Btw, although, there are mental and biomedical indicators of overtraining, but they are not obvious and/or don't show up all. Generally, you find out you are overtraining when you overtrained and have a season like Mary's did last year. I suspect there was nothing wrong with Mary's training per se, she is simply going through some physical growth and she simply needs to adapt to her new body. I have seen this many times before, everybody gets alarmed and a year or two later the athlete gets back on track. When you are doing incredible things at a young age, progress is rarely a straight linear progression as we would like for it to be, at some point, a prodigy will hit a plateau or take a step backward before moving forward. If Mary's 2011-2013 trend continued, she would be running a 3:55 1500 by now. The way things work in reality is, Mary will spend 2016 getting back to 1:59/4:01 and the rest of her career working towards 3:55.

Father wrote:

Man

you guys are DUMB

As the father of a female college frosh who runs XC, I know of what I speak. And you?

Density wrote:

Father wrote:

Man

you guys are DUMB

As the father of a female college frosh who runs XC, I know of what I speak. And you?

Such rare qualifications. We'll contact the federation and have you added to the Rio team as an assistant coach.

Kruppe wrote:

I found this bit interesting from Mary Cain's interview posted on the front-page:

"So I’d be doing crazy tempos, crazy mileage, crazy cross training, and I would get into running and by the time I’m doing the actual sport that I do, I felt really awful, really crappy. You could see it in my results.”

I suppose it sheds light on what many suspected, she was overtrained.

Are overtraining symptoms always obvious (constant fatigue, no "pop" etc?) As a coach what do you look for to catch it before it is too late? Is one or two flat races after a solid training block indicative of over-training? Is over-training harder to spot among the elites, simply because they run the ragged edge during the season?

not so much a question of overtraining, but an overbearing parent who is constantly nearby on bike. look at the flocast video of her NYC preparation and the constant critique by her dad. Who could perform under these conditions. Dad, leave her alone. Better yet, try to get her NCAA eligibility back and let her run in college for a real team. She will learn a lot and thank you for it, later.

You're in the wrong thread buddy. But interesting parallel...two phenoms struggling in their first year of college. Hmm...

Dumb logic wrote:

Father Joe wrote:

New city, new school, new classes, tougher course load, away from parents, new training group, different food, different friends ,,,oF COURSE she went home.

You guys know running but you sure don't know kids or girls or life in general.

Can you name any other future elite females who fled for home after one year?

How about one that didn't flee but committed and then never went? Ajee Wilson

Look it happens. And for everyone who thinks Cain's last performance wasn't encouraging, check the results from last year. Cain's time is faster than D'Agostino's. As for the weight thing, guys I could see what you were saying over the track season, but she looks leaner. And besides, this is usual at this age. Cain is going to be fine, sheesh.