Hand him the Foot Locker crown now- Drew Hunter runs 14:20 - 34 seconds faster than he did last year

No, it's not at all like Maton. Hunter is not too old for his grade. He is on the older side of the bell curve, but he's not outside any normal range, just imaginary ones by jealous letsrunners. Maton IS old for his grade, and is the age of a redshirt freshman or college sophomore; however, it should be noted he'd be slightly on the younger side of normal for the grade above him. If Hunter were a college freshman right now, he'd be very young for his grade--outside the normal range. He's two months older than your little Jeffrey, and maybe a month younger than your little Suzy. He's not beating anyone up because of his age. He even punches up--he's the only person younger than Justyn Knight to have his scalp, and ditto with Grant Fisher. Remember those two names? Those two are North America's best bet for future pros. Hunter has beaten them.

I can't believe it took until page 3 for someone to come up with the most relevant point. Well, maybe I can.

Training age is far more important than chronological age.

(That's of course assuming you're not talking about a kid whose crazy parents had him out pounding the pavement as soon as he stepped off the bus from elementary school, and fried him before he even got to high school. Needless to say, this was not the case with Hunter.)

(That's also assuming the kid in question is not an actual "age cheat" which Hunter clearly is not.)

I won't agrue that a full year would not be a relevant factor, especially for boys, but a few months either way does not make or break, or even substantially affect a runner's success level.

Far more important are how long he has been running, how consistently he has been running, how smartly he has been training and racing, and how healthy he has been able to stay. This is all of course on top of how much underlying talent he starts with.

The month of his birthday is just not a significant factor.

Hunter is clearly an amazing talent, who has been smartly and carefully trained, and who has added to the equasion a huge amount of dedication and commitment.

That's why he's as good as he is. Not because of what month he was born in.

Now, as far as whether he will win Foot Locker or not, we'll just have to wait and see, won't we? There is no such thing as a sure thing. Especially in sports. That's why they run the races.

Runningart2004 wrote:

This place is rediculous. Lots of kids on this board who have no clue about life.

When my daughter started Kindergarten she had to be 5 on or before Sept 1. This was in Georgia. Rules differ from state to state and can change. So what the rules are today could have been different 12 years ago. My daughter's birthday is Sept 23rd. Gee I better start training her now so she'll be ready for her 12th grade season and take advantage of those extra months!

Also, of more importance is training age. A runner who starts XC in middle school has a bigger advantage over a kid who starts in HS.

Alan

its not just formal training. A runner coming from a middle school soccer back ground (or other sports that require a decent amount of running), who practices on his own a lot, or who spends his or her time playing in the backwoods of pennsylvania, running and riding a bike around has as much advantage in hs, maybe more than a kid who did some kind of ms xc and track program consisting of only 20-30 mpw.

Drew did not really start running till the summer before 9th grade. Did a little bit at the end of 8th grade (20 minute runs) so he could set his middle school's record in the mile in PE class. Ran one season of youth track as a 9 year old and hated it. He was quite athletic as a young kid and did multiple sports, many years of baseball and basketball, and 2 years of football. Never played soccer. Was very active though, played outside quite a bit growing up. As you said, I think one thing that never seems to get mentioned much in discussing distance running (but it does in other sports) is just how much general athleticism and doing multiple sports does for a runner, plus just PLAYING outside. I think that is one reason he has had no serious injury issues so far. Oh, and in 8th grade he skateboarded all the time and I think this did a lot for him- hip and glute strength, and balance. All things that help runners. Though I don't generally recommend that as safe ancillary work for the kids on my team :-)

Virginia parent wrote:

In Virginia, the cut off date is in September. No kids turn 18 in October or beyond unless they skipped a grade, did private school for Kindergarten, or moved in from another state with a different enrollment cut off date.

My HS girlfriend turned 17 in October of her senior year in Virginia, and I'm pretty sure none of those situations applied to her. Turning 18 in September of your senior year definitely makes you on the "older" end of the spectrum as I've known a lot more people to turn 17 that month than 18, so while you're not "normal" age as someone asserted you're not unusually old either.

Thanks for chiming in. You all are doing a great job.

Being from the west coast, I'll put a vote in for Tamagno to win FL, assuming he doesn't go to NXN.

Excellent response. Could not have said it better. (Turned 17 in December of my senior year.)

Virginia parent wrote:

Actually, the cut off is Sept 30. So Hunter could have graduated last year, but would have been one of the youngest seniors in the class. And for any of you youngsters here who don't have kids and are clueless about parenting, school readiness, and most other things, you will find that being the youngest kid in your class, especially for boys, is not usually a great idea, and many educators will recommend that parents think about waiting if their child has a mid to late summer birthday. Doesn't even have to do with sports.

This isn't that hard. He couuld have been either one of the oldest or youngest people in his grades. As most boys do, he is one of the oldest.

Weldon and I turned 18 before in July before our senior year (n0 one believed we were 18 as we looked 15.) This is a total non story. Unlike Cheserek, he in no way is old for his grade. If you turn 19 during your senior year, you are abnormally old. The vast majority of US HSers turn 18 during their sernior year of HS. He just happened to do so in the first month of senior year.

Ok. You have doubts. How many high school boys could run 14:20 on a track? How many college kids? It's super impressive. Wake up, grouch.

Acali Runner wrote:

HS watcher wrote:

I know xc times don't mean a lot but the kid is gonna win. Trust me.

"Senior Drew Hunter of Loudon Valley, Va. left no room for doubt about his No. 1 ranking on Saturday, as he scorched a nation-leading time of 14:20.8 over 5k with splits of 4:31 and 9:15. To give that mark some perspective, Hunter ran 14:54 here last year before going to win Foot Locker South and place fourth at Foot Locker Nationals."

http://www.milesplit.com/articles/166090?page=5

The Ethipoian chic also scorched the couse in 16:29. I doubt anyone beats her as well.

WHY?

14:20 on a fast pancake flat course, perfectly cool conditions and a pace cart.

Great splits though! Pretty close to what you expect for 5k on the track. Less the pace cart.

Didn't Malcolm Gladwell have something to say about this in one of his books? Essentially, being older, like Rojo, Wejo, Drew Hunter, Tamagno, Maton, etc. is a huge advantage over time because of the increased opportunities one gets in the younger grades?

Gladwell made an observation about Canadian pro hockey players disproportionately having early year birthdays. The theory was that the older kids had an advantage in the grade school years, were disproportionately selected for the best teams, training, etc. that extra training etc. built upon itself each year and accumulated to a big advantage when the draft and scholarships came around. That is a different theory than being a few months older at your senior year. It fits with the posts that say his training advantage is what is most relevant,bTW, I asked who Hunter's main competition will be because this thread is about him winning the national title. Is anyone betting on someone else?I am surprised by the age debate because, as one poster put it, he already beat Fisher and Knight in some races (lost others). He is a few months older than Webb was. I think German Fernandez was young for his grade and fits with the personal stories that some are sharing about being young. I think his age is normal and he could have the talent to be a great collegian and pro

As most boys do? wrote:

Didn't Malcolm Gladwell have something to say about this in one of his books? Essentially, being older, like Rojo, Wejo, Drew Hunter, Tamagno, Maton, etc. is a huge advantage over time because of the increased opportunities one gets in the younger grades?

bTW, I'did not mean to imply that Hunter has a training advantage. I have no idea how much he trains relative to any rivals,

Another Sucker wrote:

rojo wrote:

He's not older than normal for 12th grade.

5 September 97

Age: 18 years 43 days

That actually is a bit old for a senior in high school. About a year old. Many seniors turn 17 in Sept, Oct, Nov, and December, not 18.

That's not old at all for a senior. We had multiple seniors turn 19 as a senior. I think some states, namely California, put students a grade up if they're near the age cut off while WA puts them a grade down. Regardless he shouldn't hear one word of criticism on this, like Verzbicas and Maton did. He's well within the normal range.

Fernandez wasn't just young, he should have been a grade below. He turned 17 November of his senior year. His 3:55i should have been his high school senior year. Derrick is the same story, he turned 17 October of his senior year. These two were abnormally young though, this Hunter story is insane and I have to think it's someone jealous and looking to discredit his time.

I started this fuss by asking his age since my Google searching had been unavailing. As I have said a couple of times, Hunter is clearly an extraordinary talent. But your comment about Fernandez's indoor 3:55 as a college freshman proves my point. An extra year makes a difference. Presumably - hopefully - he will run significantly faster this year than last. If so he will quite possibly be remembered with Ryun and Webb in future discussions about the greatest of all time. That would not be the case had he graduated last June.

As many have pointed out, Hunter is a perfectly legitimate high school senior, age-wise. What surprised me was that so many states have Sept. 1 as the cutoff date for 5 year olds to enter kindergarten (resulting in the same cutoff for 17 year olds becoming seniors). I wonder when states adopted that date. In days of yore (yeah, I am old enough that "yore" applies) I think it was left up to parents as to when their kids were old enough physically and psychologically to start school.

Worrying about the age of a teen is just a waste of time. Different maturity curves, not comparable anyway. Absolute performance is key. Like someone else said, if they turn 19 during high school, then that's too old. Otherwise, it does not matter.

Frankly put wrote:

I turned 18 December of my freshmen year of college so he would have been 15 months older than me in high school. But we do things differently up here in Canada.

Kevin Sullivan is Canadian and ran a sub 4 mile in high school.

He was born in March 1974 and graduated high school in 1993 before going to Michigan.

So he was 19 and a few months in high school.

I thought Canadians were generally a year older going into college.

What we need to do is make it a law than all babies must be born in January so we don't have issues of someone being 11 months older than someone else in the same age group.

Who is saying it's normal to turn 17 during senior year? That's definitely young.

Normal is starting senior year at age 17, then turning 18 during the school year. That should be the case for 80% of kids (the kids with birthdays September to June).

If you finish senior year at 17 or 19, you're young or old for your grade.

Hunter is normal. Move along, nothing to see here.

Star wrote:

Frankly put wrote:

I turned 18 December of my freshmen year of college so he would have been 15 months older than me in high school. But we do things differently up here in Canada.

Kevin Sullivan is Canadian and ran a sub 4 mile in high school.

He was born in March 1974 and graduated high school in 1993 before going to Michigan.

So he was 19 and a few months in high school.

I thought Canadians were generally a year older going into college.

What we need to do is make it a law than all babies must be born in January so we don't have issues of someone being 11 months older than someone else in the same age group.

Ontario, has/had grade 13 when Kevin Sullivan was running. Don't know if Ontario still has such. Generally, most Canadians are same age as US students or younger. Generally, most Canadians don't hold kids/boys back because there isn't the incentive (football) to do such.