Taoufik Makhloufi workout video 2 weeks before 2:13.09 at 1000m

Claiming to be an expert because you watched some races on TV actually makes you a fool, and by basking in the glow of you're perceived genius, you've failed to learn a single thing from people here who actually know what their talking about.

A world class 800m coach said he saw Johnny Gray run a fast time trial. It didn't fit your narrow experience with middle distance running, so you claim it to be false, rather than learn something new.

i have analysed the data for decades & the conclusion is that most elites expect to be in best shape at majors

any serious efforts day or 2 before & before that of an expected peak effort at culmination is nowhere near expected 1-off rested effort in perfect race, as in zurich or brussels in temperate weather

here are few :

after his incredible 1'41.24 in zurich off suicidal 23.0 / 48.3 !!!, he coudn't reproduce anything like it 3/7 later

3/7 is too short a recover from a maximal 800 effort

then we have nick, fastest ever 1500 white-boy :

learn to think

nick is saying rounds take it out of you & final from most of history is usually only a ~ faster last lap than prelims, so it's not generally brutal hard rounds but accumulation of them in short time

any number of races of any serious quality in short period of time wreck your ability to run peak flat-out time in last one compared to 1-off fully rested effort

& that shoud apply just as much to 800 as 1500

mostly dead wrote: 800 m times tend to be faster in a crowded schedule.. Deal with it

see above

rise of the mostly dead wrote:Except for Cruz and Rudisha, among others

see 2 above

Good pick up Vent

The correct time was 1:27.3. It was a part of a workout, which as always included 6x150 (50j) before the 700. I ran a 600m PB on route of 1:15.4 and was only in 4th!

Just triple checked my diary to make sure I wasn't wrong again.

ventolin^3 wrote:

rise of the mostly dead wrote:Except for Cruz and Rudisha, among others

see 2 above

And Juantorena and Doubell.

You are just wrong. The fact that the current WR holder did so after rounds proves it.

Welcome to reality.

JRinaldi wrote:

Good pick up Vent

The correct time was 1:27.3. It was a part of a workout, which as always included 6x150 (50j) before the 700. I ran a 600m PB on route of 1:15.4 and was only in 4th!

Just triple checked my diary to make sure I wasn't wrong again

the workout before suggests he was capable of well below 1'42 at his peak

gray was capable of 1'42.0 for assumed rested 1'27.3 is likely true prediction

in zurich-'88, he ran a 1'42.6 off terrible splits, virtually solo off a suicidal rabbit !!!

24.0 at 200 for johnny !!!

he then held onto 1'42.6 solo !!!

24-mid, paced smoothly to bell from break - bell in 49-mid/high & at worst, that was a 1'42-flat

more like 1'41-mid/high with above

he crushed cram & elliott in it

here it is, courtesy of malmo who 1st linked it on this forum a while back :

no comments on rest of my post ??

i also assume you are oz

i am rooting for you to win WC & have done so since start in '87

you always have best active rugby talent on planet but playing nonsense league or rules & shoud never have lost '03

if you are not oz, then sorry, i'll talk to real oz guys

he ran a virtually solo-1'43.50 after rounds

the negligible pacing from a runt who dared to briefly run in front of him at bell before caballo ran over him doesn't detract :

a 1'43.50 after rounds, effectively solo, with 1st 300m run in lanes

the lanes restriction nearly cost 0.3s from modern running where break is at 116m & lacks potential pacing if pacer in 2 & champ in 1

he was in 1'42-high shape in zurich or brussels if in a 1-off, fully rested 800, smoothly paced from break-bell

nonsense

he ran race off his life behind Kiprugut who ran an essentially solo 1'44-mid off an outrageous 24.0 at altitude !!!

doubell just outlasted him after much more drafted race with sensible splits

doubell certainly in 1'43-low shape in 1-off ideal rested paced-to-bell zurich

Kiprugut was in 1'42-flat/low shape at worst for similar

Kiprugut's attempt to win was most outrageous/suicidal effort i have ever seen in a 800 on vid !!!

he shouda just followed the pole in slow-ass time at bell & kicked at 600 for easy win but he tried to win off suicidal pace thru 200 at 7,300+' !!!

there is no chance in hell doubell wouda beaten him in a slow-ass race as Kiprugut was a 400 guy moved-up

no

utter nonsense

the current wr holder wouda run 1'40-low if fully rested, paced to bell off 24-low in a zurich / brussels but no mickey-mouse like firenze

learn to analyse

Learn to read before you go analyzing quotes. Willis is talking about competing AFTER the championships, not the final of a championship.

His quote has nothing to do with running slower in championship finals after rounds.

A mountain of actual performance data clearly shows 800m bring about peak performances.

no

you learn to read & apply non-zero logic :

"After 3 rounds of a championship, I am only 75% of my former fit self, and running on the last remaining fuel at the bottom of the barrel"

the last race is invariably a ~ 2'40+ at bell with big kick on last lap

it is a glorified 400

that shoud never wreck post-season on it's own

therefore the 2 prelims in short period of time must also contribute to poor energy reserve for post-champs

anyone with a clue woud surmise nick is saying the accumulation of 3 races in a few days wrecks his post-champs season

yes

see above

logic dictates that a final with a ~ 2'40+ at bell with big 400 cannot on it's own wreck a post-champs

the 2 prior races have to had a debilitating effect which accumulated for final to give his "end-figure of 75%"

eh ???

where do you get this nonsense ?!

the prelims are also just slow+, usually slow++ to bell but big last 100 - 400 depending on quality of field

nothing at all about running slower in final

however, implication is that someone of nick's calibre, 3'29.6 in this case, indicates by logic that rounds accumulate & take something out of effort for final

therefore, anyone running short period of fast races won't be at best in last effort

utter nonsense

learn to think

those performances wouda been helluva lot faster if just the 1-off

- cruz has US connections : we can wait for letsrun to ask him what he reckoned his 1'41.77 wouda been in a 1-off effort without suicidal near-solo 2'14-flat / coupla 1'42-low/mid in his legs in few days before !!!

- Kip already said his 1'42.77 off 52.0/50.7 in monaco just 3 days after his wild 1'41.24WR was "too close" a race for him to repeat

- Rudy, when letsrun gets him an interview can ask him what he reckons his 1'40.91WR wouda been without the rounds - 1'44.3 semi from 2 days before & 1'45.9 day before that

i suspect the chances of any of those guys saying the final time under consideration was absolute best they couda run without rounds is less than 0 & that is from logic not hubris

learn logic...

ventolin^3 wrote:

those performances wouda been helluva lot faster if just the 1-off

- cruz has US connections : we can wait for letsrun to ask him what he reckoned his 1'41.77 wouda been in a 1-off effort without suicidal near-solo 2'14-flat / coupla 1'42-low/mid in his legs in few days before !!!

- Kip already said his 1'42.77 off 52.0/50.7 in monaco just 3 days after his wild 1'41.24WR was "too close" a race for him to repeat

- Rudy, when letsrun gets him an interview can ask him what he reckons his 1'40.91WR wouda been without the rounds - 1'44.3 semi from 2 days before & 1'45.9 day before that

i suspect the chances of any of those guys saying the final time under consideration was absolute best they couda run without rounds is less than 0 & that is from logic not hubris

learn logic...

here is some historical "proof" for veracity of rounds / frequent races killing of 1-off :

Kipkurgat ran 1'44.38 on 27th january '74

that was fastest auto-time ever, beating doubell's 1'44.40 win in mexico

Kip's run was not WR as that was just previous year, fiasconaro's 1'43.7 which was hand-time & "auto-time" was hand operated but all 3 watches said 1'43.7

then 2 days later, Kip runs this solo, on windy day, costing tenths+++ for his final clocking for wind & solo on 1st lap with no drafting 200 - 400, costing an additional ~ 0.35s :

here with running clock & additional after-race commentary :

then comment about about what that "WR Auto-Time" in semi :

Kip said round drained him !!!

if, 1-off, ~ no wind costing maybe 1.0s, rested legs costing maybe 0.75s for his calibre , pacing to bell costing maybe 0.35s, he wouda been looking at :

~ 1'43.91 - 1.00 - 0.75 - 0.35 =

~ 1'41.8

the Kenyans have always had incredible 800 guys, from long, long ago...

Still no. Sorry.

You really have no clue. NW from NZ said that his speed training to peak for championship races coupled with three 1500m races with sprint finishes at the championships prevents him from running a fast 1500m AFTER the championships.

He says three rounds, but he's referring to all three races at the championship, including the final. You lack the prior knowledge to make the proper inference.

When he said three rounds of racing he was referring to the 1500m heat, semi, and final. Those three rounds of racing dull his performance on the circuit later in the season.

The world record, virtually every national record, and virtually every 1.41 and 1.42 performers' PR was set after a close series of 800m races.

Misinterpreting a quote from a 1500m runner and presenting outlying data won't convince anyone you're right.

It's not only the rounds that bring 800m runners to their peak at championships, it's the hype of the event, emotions, and desire that brings the fast times. This can't be matched on the circuit. The Olympics inspired Rudisha to that awesome run. He'd never match it on the circuit with far less at stake, even with perfect conditions and rabbiting. Athletic performance at that level is inspired by emotion.

Men are not machines. You can't apply mathematical formulas to human performance. There are too many emotional variables. That's why Ventoilin is so often wrong about Kiprop and his 800m races. Despite being in awesome shape, some events don't inspire his best performance.

In an event like the 800m, shortest event run without lanes (mostly) requires the athletes to really compete man-on-man and run all out from the gun. The event is rarely tactical and doesn't need a rabbit. Championship 800m racing produces faster times than those run on the circuit. Go back and look how often the 800m world record was broken at the Olympics. Compare that to the 1500m.

Since 800m times have reached sub 1.45, the 800m world record has been broken three times at the Olympics, after running rounds (Duebell, Juanterana, and Rudisha). All three men never ran raster. Those world records are still the existing national records for their respective countries too, and obviously Rudisha's time is still the world record.

In before Vent repeats his Kipkurgat, Kipketer stories yet again.

Kip lost wrote:

Since 800m times have reached sub 1.45, the 800m world record has been broken three times at the Olympics, after running rounds (Duebell, Juanterana, and Rudisha). All three men never ran raster. Those world records are still the existing national records for their respective countries too, and obviously Rudisha's time is still the world record.

Juantorena has not the 800m NR.

Correct Tellez ran a 1.42 at the 1996 Olympic Games to set the Cuban record, AFTER running rounds!

Kip lost wrote:

Since 800m times have reached sub 1.45, the 800m world record has been broken three times at the Olympics, after running rounds (Duebell, Juanterana, and Rudisha). All three men never ran raster. Those world records are still the existing national records for their respective countries too, and obviously Rudisha's time is still the world record.

Juantorena chopped a HUGE amount of his '76 record the following year.

1:43.44 down from 1:43.50.