Why did Morceli fade in the mid-late 90s?

If you spend significant time around world class track and field, you might be amazed at the level of doping.

Hallamshire Harrier wrote:

Aouita's times were definitely in that range prior to moving to italy. I was living in Twickenham at the time, and I remember him seemingly coming out of nowhere. Funny thing is, the thought of it being secondary to drug abuse didn't even really enter our mind in those days. Pity how far the pendulum has swung.

Very important where you lived at the time! You remember his times "were definitely in that range"? That's nice. So you granted what you "remember" from some 40 years back as more important as reported numbers from athletics journals?

Interesting also that Coedeppe now is back to 1:50, 3:40 and 14:00. A few days back it was 1:48, 3:40 and 13:45. A few months back he has had Aouita as a 3:45 man until his "mid twenties". (the correct numbers are 1:47, 3:37 and 13:48 (as a teen, shortly after he took running seriously) (and good steeple and great international XC victories against for example Carlos Lopes).

From Coedeppe's last lie to the subject I think it gets clear that he just can't accept the fact that all of Ovett's PBs are relatively weak, therefore he just HAS to put the times of all others (apart from some brits) down and HAS to clarify what Ovett COULD have done (1:42, 3:28 and 12:55) in 1978 (the WRs were 1:43.44, 3:32.13 and 13:12.9 before Rono). With PEDs, he has Ovett at 12:35... (challenge: Where did he get those numbers 12:55 and 12:35 from? Small hint: not at all from what Ovett has done, but others!).

When pointing on the obvious fact that Ovett in Moscow 1980 clearly should have been disqualified (how often do we see that a runner puts both his hands on the shoulders of two runners in front of him in an attempt to pass them when there actually is no chance to pass them?) he can't offer much more than: "it was normal at the time".

Just for clarification: I don't have anithing against Steve Ovett, he definitely is one of my all-time favourite runners (maybe behind Aouita, Walker, Niyongabo alongside Coe, Cram, Lopes, Mamede, Clarke, Zatopek and some others - for sure also Gebrselassie and Bekele, but they just were too good to actually fear sometimes about them...). As a person I like Ovett very much. But for sure I can still criticise some behaviour which I just think is very strange (for example the celebrating on the straight to make look the competitors sometimes little bit laughable) (he had to pay for it in that 5000m after Moscow). And for sure this absolutely unique behaviour in the Moscow 800m final.

Hallamshire Harrier wrote:

I was living in Twickenham at the time,

What is the significance of this?

said88 wrote:

HAS to clarify what Ovett COULD have done (1:42, 3:28 and 12:55) in 1978 (the WRs were 1:43.44, 3:32.13 and 13:12.9 before Rono). With PEDs, he has Ovett at 12:35....

For sure those times are what Coedeppe thinks Ovett could...

Bayi's WR was 3:32.16.

right of abode wrote:

Hallamshire Harrier wrote:

I was living in Twickenham at the time,

What is the significance of this?

Not much, just extraneous, I suppose. Athletics was my life at the time, but I now live in LA.

Unfortunately, I see that the usual "until he took athletics seriously" mantra is being inserted into the argument. Drugs or not, it was a delight to watch the magic little Moroccan make his passage round the oval.

Hallamshire Harrier wrote:

Unfortunately, I see that the usual "until he took athletics seriously" mantra is being inserted into the argument. Drugs or not, it was a delight to watch the magic little Moroccan make his passage round the oval.

What is this "mantra"? Aouita took up running very late (there was absolutely no running environment in Morocco at the time and he just came to running during some football practice - reportedly at around the age of 18, but since not even his year of birth is clear, I would not take this too seriously). That's what was reported back in the day.

I very deeply searched his results and could find just very few for 1977 and 1978. Starting in 1979, he competed regularly in national and international Championships and also some smaller international meetings in France - and in June '79, in one of his first 5000m races, he has run 13:48.5. Since he is born in November 1959 or 1960 (as said, there are uncertainties about this) I think it is fair to state that he started serious athletics relatively late. If he also did some serious running during his football days until around age 16 - we probably will never know.

Interesting also that you havn't said a single word to correct your not very wise statement about you remembering that he...

how can you think he is clean based upon what has come out during his coaching of the Australian athletes? do you dispute that? because if you don't you have no ground to stand on.

going to quote an article that was linked to you before in old threads on this

"Aouita began to spend many hours running on the green fields and grounds of two junior high schools just outside Fez's massive city walls. Soon he started to win races, and dream, and talk about his dreams. Says Hamid Hammada, Morocco's steeplechase champion, who trained with him, "He was determined to become a great champion like Kenya's [Henry] Rono. He said running would bring him glory, travel and money.""

Never started training until he was 19 right? obvious doper and you're the one who is lying.

in before somebody says accusing Aouita of doping is racist.

He was a consistent 1.48/3.40 man in Euro B meetings while in France, then miraculously changed into a 3.29 man (2 years?) after a move to Italy. As stated, I thoroughly enjoyed watching him race, and was lucky enough to see him be the first under 7.30 in Koln. To answer, the mantra referred to is the same of the fallacy that Farah was not serious about his training prior to joining Salazar. Having read your posts on these boards for quite some time, it seems that you are easily offended. By no account do I mean any personal offense by my statements, and hope that you understand that. I believe in amicable and civil conversation, and enjoy being in s forum where there are others that enjoy athletics as much as myself. However, I'll state controversially that believing Aouita's meteoric rise to dominance was done on could-cous alone is disingenuous, especially given his statements while involved with the Australian national team. Lastly, I was always disappointed that he opted for the 5000m in 1984. Think of the final with Aouita in that cracker...

Hi Coevett!

You are an idiot. wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Yes, El G infamously had to start wearing braces around the time of the Sydney Games. Having to wear braces when you're nearly 30 is a classic sign of heavy HGH abuse.

People like you make this website the Sodom and Gomorrah of the internet.

That's funny. ?

Big Deal wrote:

Coevett wrote:

MMA is the most brutal sport there is, yet a big majority of fans are openly saying that John Jones is the biggest piece of cheating $hit in the world right now.

Ever heard of future Hall of Famer Julian Edelman? You can't mention Brady without his right-hand man Edelman. How about Mark Ingram? Brees' top RB. Both hit with 4-game PED suspensions earlier in the year. Nobody is making a big deal about it in NFL fan land. Both the Pats & Saints are winning, with the Saints looking unstoppable at 13-2. Btw, the NFL is the entertainment capital of the World! PEDs have been a part of the game since the beginning. You probably watch some of the games yourself. ?

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/07/28/julian-edelman-ped-suspension-training-camp

Actually performance enhancing drugs have been around since the 1880s. If you do not believe me,

please look up the name Pud Galvin. Mr. Pud is a HOF pitcher-outfielder from the 1880s.

Lance Armstrong is a known PED user. Obviously the guys in the NFL who get caught were caught by tests as well.

Unfortunately we do not know about all of the cheaters in Track & Field history. The facts are Morceli could have

been legal. We simply do not know. By the way MMA is not a sport. It's two little kids jumping on top of

each other on the playground. Like pro wrestling we do not know when it's real or when it's completely fake.

I suggest any wrestling, boxing, or other contact sports with women involved is likely 99% fake.

Devil Dog wrote:

Star wrote:

No one has successfully used drugs to run fast since 1996 because of the better drug testing.

Wrong. The EPO test was first introduced in 2000 for the Sydney Olympics and it was later revealed that it wasn't even 50% effective until 2002. The slew of unbelievable times run by the likes of Guerrouj, Morcelli, Komen, and Geb are all 100% doped. That entire era could easily be forgotten.

I love the serious replies to my sarcasm.

What do you know what I THINK?

I have never seen this phrase you have quoted here before. Would be great if you can link me to this article.

"Never started training until he was 19 right?" Who has said this? What a stupidity.

You know who wrote that....

I hardly have written anything about his breakthrough in 1983. I just think it is always better to stay to the facts. If you don't stay to the facts YOU HAVE NO CHANCE really to prove anything. What ever it means that he was "a consistent 1.48/3.40 man in Euro B meetings". He has had not the chance to run in many great international meetings, but on the very few he actually did, he has run 3:37.08 (17.07.1980, Paris); 3:37,69 (19.08.1981, Zürich/B); 3:37.37 (22.08.1982, Köln - one of the first which I have on tape). When that's for you good quoted by "consistent 3:40 runner", than I just don't know what to say other than: Are you a relative of Coedeppe? In the 800 he has run 1:47.0 (15.06.1981, I don't know the place) and 1:47.4 (18.08.1982, Saint-Maur). What about a steeple in 8:40.16 (17.07.1979, Tunis)? Or Victories in long course cross country over all the best French long distance runners and also Carlos Lopes?

I don't know if he is the worst person on this planet, but even if so, if he has run those times and achieved these victories - than let us just face it like that. Why change the facts? And again: if you really want to prove something, than it's a must to stick to the facts. Otherwise you might convince some people, but it definitely isn't anything like a proof.

(But it's so obvious that Coedeppe doesn't want TO PROVE anything but just to convince some weak minded letsrunners).

4357 wrote:

said88 wrote:

What do you know what I THINK?

I have never seen this phrase you have quoted here before. Would be great if you can link me to this article.

"Never started training until he was 19 right?" Who has said this? What a stupidity.

You know who wrote that....

No, I don't know this. And if you want to imply with your stupid comment that it's me, you are just wrong (probably knowingly). No difference between "Never started training until he was 19" and "started relatively late with serious training"? Letsrun at his best. I don't know when he started to train for distance running. I don't know when he started to train "professionally". What I have are some articles from the time he became more popular and the racing results which I could find (also in L'Equipe and African yearbooks). This clearly implies for me that he started relatively late with serious training. I would be very happy if someone can forward me any early results of his races, maybe from some Moroccan youth championships which I don't know. What I absolutely can confirm, is that I never ever tried to change the facts in any way (why on earth should I do this)? If he competed in youth competitions in Morocco at age 15, I would be very happy to know about it. All the infos which I have say differently.

Hey!!! Easy there dude! I am on your side!

Coevett wrote that!

Why are you insulting me?

greatest? wrote:

Guy was a beast then when El G came on the scene he had no answer and fell off a cliff in terms of performances. Did he get psyched out?

Once Hammer-pants made there way to Morocco—no one could ever convince him to NOT wear those pants. He wore them 24/7—including during training runs and, unfortunately, during actual competition. He never ran faster than 3:38 for the 15 after that. True story.

I was paraphrasing other posts of yours I meant to say 18 not 19. so you don't know yet you make posts proclaiming he did not start "serious training" until a late age. supporting the notion that his crazy drops after moving to Italy were all natural.

haha, once again when presented with a question about the Australians and whether or not you dispute what the athletes have said you just ignore it.

I will ask you again, do you think Aouita encouraged athletes he was coaching to take PEDs? or do you think the multiple Australian athletes were lying? if you do think they were lying why did he go back to Morocco instead of defending himself?

here is a link to an article that has been linked to you before when you posted something similar to what you posted here on the board.

https://www.si.com/vault/1986/06/23/629216/two-aces-on-a-collision-course