Runners, do we still hate Priuses (aka Prii)?

Bad Wigins wrote:

Science is not your friend wrote:

possibility of increasing energy production with reduced hydrocarbon use through wind or nuclear or solar.

pipe dream, never gonna happen, not better anyhow.

Turning fossil fuels into electricity to run cars will never be as efficient as simple running the cars on fossil fuels, no matter how high-tech your plants are. It will only end up increasing fossil fuel use.

There is only ONE solution to the world's energy problems, and that's to figure out how to stop using so much energy. Gluttonous consumption is the problem. Stop driving motorized vehicles at all. Never use air conditioning. This will probably not happen until the fossil fuel supply starts dwindling.

How can this not be more efficient in any way?

Are you qualified to make such predictions with any degree of confidence? I thought you were in the health care industry? Sports medicine if I'm correct?

If you were right, then why don't we all have our own generators? Why is there an electric grid? Why do the metro trains use common electric lines instead of individual motors?

Do you know anything about engine efficiency and their limitations?

The biggest barrier right now is battery capacity. It is still about 50% of where it needs to be but there are several advances which are passing through the R&D stages and will likely be scalable within a decade.

Honestly it sounds like you are just talking out of your ass. People who say xyz will NEVER work are often wrong. Making such bold predictions in engineering fields with a sports medicine background is... Well... Talking out of your ass.

Ignore bad wigins he's just a contrarian with strong opinions about everything.

Prii?

STOP PRII!

All but the absolute worst power plants (most of which are already gone anyway) are more efficient that automobile engines. This is true even when you take transmission losses into consideration.

Actual Prius owner guy wrote:

Pros:

Amazing fuel economy. We get 52-56 per the computer depending on season..

A Prius only gets 52-56 American mpg (43-47 Imperial/British)??? That can't be right. There are standard production cars in Europe that get double that.

Can you just name them please?

Randy Oldman wrote:

Actual Prius owner guy wrote:

Pros:

Amazing fuel economy. We get 52-56 per the computer depending on season..

A Prius only gets 52-56 American mpg (43-47 Imperial/British)??? That can't be right. There are standard production cars in Europe that get double that.

"We're often asked why cars sold in Europe seem to be so much more efficient than those on sale in the U.S.

Typically, it's accompanied by the mention of some supposedly 80-mpg car sold in Europe--while the best U.S.-market vehicles barely crest the 50-mpg mark.

Now, Reuters highlights one of the main reasons for the discrepancy: Not only are European tests unrealistic, but automakers exploit loopholes in the testing, further blurring the lines between rated efficiency and real-world results."

From one analysis that estimates life cycle (manufacturing, operation and maintenance, disposal) emissions cost of a full electric vehicle under different prime power plant mixes there is this equivalency chart that shows an electric vehicle with effective emissions on par with a 40 MPG conventional car with US average power plant mix. For mixes that are mostly coal-based (e.g. India) it's more like a 20 MPG car and for mixes that are purely non-carbon renewable (e.g. Iceland (hydro & geothermal)) effective emissions are on par with a 200+ MPG vehicle:

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Emissions-Equivalent-Petrol-Car.gif

Full report is here:

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Shades-of-Green-Full-Report.pdf

The net is that electric vehicles are not a silver bullet by themselves, but are probably a necessary part of a transition to a low carbon power infrastructure. From a US centric view, full electrics, are about on emissions par with other current low-carbon vehicles such as hybrids and diesels.

More somewhat-related information:

http://discover.umn.edu/news/environment/switching-vehicles-powered-electricity-renewables-could-save-lives

You can scroll down and find the link to the full paper.

Thanks. I had linked to a similar study a while back when this topic came up. I'm on the road today and posting from my phone so I want able to do a thorough search for it. I was able to find this too.