Lauren Fleshman speaks out- "I definitely do think that's an ethical violation."

Funny to see all these dopers coming out now. She has a very typical jaw/chin of a PED user.

https://www.google.com/search?q=molly+huddle&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS494US539&espv=2&biw=853&bih=599&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=RcOCVabsKI3GogTrzILgDg&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=lauren+fleshman&imgrc=Q7TyKdzFbAoAUM%253A%3BFc6GuclG3g-FPM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.runnerspace.com%252Fmembers%252Fphotos%252F42%252FLauren-Fleshman_full.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.runnerspace.com%252Fphotos.php%253Fphoto_id%253D208181%3B720%3B1079

I'm sick of Lauren Fleshman and Kara Goucher. Both washed up and trying to stay in the spotlight as long as possible.

Ohhhh you're SO clever calling her Laura instead of Lauren, because she's such a nobody! Good one buddy!

You need to re-read this post because apparently you missed it or can't understand it:

"You do realize that companies pay her for her opinion right?

What do you do for a living? Now do less of it because you annoy someone at work.. Doesn't make much sense does it?"

Furthermore, she wasn't just stating an opinion in this piece. She gave testimony to a couple different interactions with Al. Big difference.

WTF is an ethical violation.

So much misogyny among a select group of insecure men on this board.

go Afrikaaaa wrote:

Funny to see all these dopers coming out now. She has a very typical jaw/chin of a PED user.

What? She looks totally normal to me:

This part of her story was actually unclear to me: was it Alberto's plan, or part of the doctor's procedure for diagnosis?

The "he" here is ambiguous. But "they would be waiting to test you" implies that this was the doctor's procedure. And this seems like a reasonable way of testing for exercise induced asthma. How would you do so without having the patient exercise first?

Team Salazar, LOL. Everything, and everyone, is suspect except old man Al.

Alberto knows and controls everything. He leaves nothing to chance. If the doctor said walk up the stairs, Alberto who add run all-out first, then up run all-out up the stairs, and use those emergency exit stairs that have stale air, and are very dusty.

Probably not. All along I thought that we were discussing someone named Lauren.

My apologies for not being intelligent enough to account for other people's posting mistakes, omissions, etc. Gets me every time. But I'm working on that.

So you don't actually know whether Laura/Lauren was financially compensated for her interview, but you're going to go ahead and assume that she was and use this as grounds for condemning her. Makes sense. And on top of that, as we not-so-bright people continue to point out, do Fleshman's motives matter if she's telling the truth?

This is even more cryptic than the rest of your drivel. Man, I wish I wasn't stuck at Taco Bell so I could take an ESL class and figure out what the hell is going on here.

By the way, it's interesting that you ripped Kara Goucher to shreds in a different, now-deleted thread, but are giving her a de facto pass here so you can focus your animus on Fleshman. I won't speculate as to the genesis of your rabid issues with thirtysomething elite women runners or women in general. I will tell you that it's your gratuitous quotation marks that give you away, along with your game efforts to write in high-flown language when you lack the facility to go there.

greyzone wrote:

It seems based off everything that the grey area maybe way bigger than most thought. Some seem to be more willing to push the grey area than others, but it looks like the pool was pretty big

Pretty big is an understatement. HUUUUUUGE. Read the rules. Al Sal has read them and knows there are huge opportunities to dope.

It sure seems strange that USATF and IAAF are silent. It's like they don't want anything to happen to their biggest sponsor or something.

The IOC knows all of this and is okay with doping. Diack was publicly outraged USADA could recommend a sanction for Armstrong. That's what you are dealing with. Nobody is protecting the integrity of the sport. WADA has no authority to protect the integrity of the sport.

What we get is Al Sal/Nike doping kids and no consequences to Al Sal or Nike.

KMB wrote:

By the way, it's interesting that you ripped Kara Goucher to shreds in a different, now-deleted thread, but are giving her a de facto pass here so you can focus your animus on Fleshman. I won't speculate as to the genesis of your rabid issues with thirtysomething elite women runners or women in general. I will tell you that it's your gratuitous quotation marks that give you away, along with your game efforts to write in high-flown language when you lack the facility to go there.

Because the point is to introduce as much doubt and mistrust in the stories from 17 (greater than 16, less than 18) athletes who suggest Al Sal is running a doping program.

They can't keep their lies straight. Whomever Nike/USATF hired to post this nonsense, they aren't getting much out of it on this site.

Is Runner's World personally attacking the 17 athletes yet? They already published some Al Sal nonsense that was supposed to pass for an excuse. I would not be surprised the Flat Earth Science club would be flourishing there.

runDirtyrun wrote:

Because the point is to introduce as much doubt and mistrust in the stories from 17 (greater than 16, less than 18) athletes who suggest Al Sal is running a doping program.

I don't think that people like "Laura who?" are part of such a scheme. He's one of a handful of grievous dimwits here with a disturbing level of animosity toward uppity elite women athletes. Different problem. If Nike really were populating message boards with people hired to muddy the waters, they certainly have the means to track down folks who aren't looking up the scale at a sixth-grade literacy level.

Or...OR...reverse psychology! I've been had!

Hayduke wrote:

Teabag Heroes not Prison Break wrote:

Compelling piece and a great window into how the gray zone doping works.

It comes down to this: runners cannot train as hard as they want due to physical limitations, so we abuse the TUE system to train harder and harder.

How is using albuterol or advair or thyroid medicine to train beyond ones natural limitations any different from using Winstrol to do so?

It's doping.

Does anyone REALLY think that using an altitude tent is working within the spirit of the rule?

Sure it is. Altitude tents, like training, nutrition, etc., help you get up to your physiological limits. Doping helps you break through those limits.

I believe Alberto is guilty and has been for years but so is Lauren, Gouchers, Ritz and everyone else that has been involved with him.

I am not an insider but have been well aware of how sketchy Alberto has been for years. LAUREN KNEW of his reputation long before she "asked" for some help. Her story would be much more believable if she said "I approached Alberto to cheat and he helped me".

Same with Gouchers.

Until they tell the entire truth and not just Alberto's part, there will be doubters.

broke my ankle wrote:

Fleshman raises some good points and interesting insight into the specific case of thyroid medicine, but I am not totally convinced that "mindset" she describes is unethical.

Sometimes your body cannot take the training and you get medical help to enable your body to take the training and it is not cheating. If I get a stress fracture, should I just rest more and back off training, or should I get in an orthopedic boot and take meds?

If my feet get blisters when I train barefoot, should I just take it easy, or should I buy shoes to enable me to run more mileage without getting blisters?

The thing is, we have Fleshman's "unethical" mindset about a ton of things, but for some reason the line is crossed when it is about thyroid function?

Wearing a walking boot due to a stress fracture or switching shoes to prevent blisters isn't altering your bodies chemistry. Throwing everything out of whack and, when done to the extreme, making permanent changes.

Teabag Heroes not Prison Break wrote:

How is using albuterol or advair or thyroid medicine to train beyond ones natural limitations any different from using Winstrol to do so?

It's doping.

And exactly which limitations count as natural? How is using an otc pair reliever, such as aspirin, natural? Or an antihistamine? Running shoes? Surgery? Artificial track surfaces? Treadmills?

More importantly, who gets to decide what is a "natural limitation" and what is not?

The fact is that you can't settle arguments over what is cheating by using words such as "natural." People do not agree about which limits are natural, and which are not.

Ditto for "the spirit of the sport." People obviously do not agree about what is consistent with that spirit, so saying that something is wrong because it violates the spirit of the sport is not helpful.

My brother and I went to the strip club. I would like to come forward and tell his wife about the experience but I do not plan on taking any personal responsibility for myself. Afterall, my wife would be pissed.

They are all guilty.

KMB.

You have serious reading issues. Is English your primary language?

You are so naive dude

You seem to think the only way for her to profit from being the publicity hog that she is is from being paid. I never once said or implied she got paid for the interview. Get off that argument. You are embarassing yourself.

I never "ripped" Kara. I never would. Kara had concerns and went to usada. Not to the press when it was convenient.

I don't think Fleshman did. Why? She was probably crossing ethical lines. But she cashed those NIKE checks.

Now when she wants to be in the news again. Suddenly she speaks. I surmise her motivation isn't about a clean sport it's about publicity and that chip on her shoulder.

Laura who? wrote:

You seem to think the only way for her to profit from being the publicity hog that she is is from being paid.

You obviously haven't noticed that I'm not concerned with how Fleshman has supposedly profited from the NOP mess. Neither is anyone else. You are talking to yourself on this score, and in a way only you might be able understand.

Laura who? wrote:

I don't think Fleshman did...I surmise her motivation isn't about a clean sport...

It probably won't startle you to know that the suppositions and uneducated guesses of an anonymous and functionally illiterate message-board poster don't interest me.

You say you aren't interested in Fleshman's opinions. Good for you. But I'm likely not the only one who would rather listen to an elite athlete who has had a professional relationship of sorts with Alberto Salazar than an unsophisticated online gnat, and I don't have to envision Fleshman as being blameless or perfect for this to be the case.

Now leave me alone so I can study for my SATs. The first six times I took them I couldn't crack 420 on the verbal part, and I blame Oiselle and every one of those has-been sluts for distracting me.