Lauren Fleshman speaks out- "I definitely do think that's an ethical violation."

InWyo wrote:

A LetsRun thread with Lauren Fleshman as a subject, that is almost entirely positive about Lauren Fleshman.

This is HUGE!

Um, positive in the sense that it seems like she knowingly cheated and should forfeit her US titles?

I don't know if Fleshman is telling the truth or not, but it seems both her and Kara G. are more about keeping their names out there then anything else. Does Fleshman even race anymore? If not why is Osielle sponsoring her? I know Kara ran 15:40, but that is far from a major sponsorship performance. I know she hasn't raced a 5k in years, but neither had Flanagan.

Jeff Albertson wrote:

InWyo wrote:

A LetsRun thread with Lauren Fleshman as a subject, that is almost entirely positive about Lauren Fleshman.

This is HUGE!

Um, positive in the sense that it seems like she knowingly cheated and should forfeit her US titles?

There are two objectives in competitive track and field.

1. Win, or try to.

2. Never test positive.

Al Sal got both done with Fleshman.

You seem to be operating under some illusion that elite athletics is accomplished on bread and water. This just posted on buzzfeed: Elite athletics rife with ethical issues related to doping and maximizing human performance.

I think Lauren is being very honest, but I also feel Lauren is a publicity freak and couldn't stand being left out of the current and hot running news. She makes me a sick to my stomach over her constant need for publicity and attention. Message to Lauren, keep your trap shut more often and your face out of media for a little while and people might actually want to hear what you have to say a little more.

gaglrs wrote:

I think Lauren is being very honest, but I also feel Lauren is a publicity freak and couldn't stand being left out of the current and hot running news. She makes me a sick to my stomach over her constant need for publicity and attention. Message to Lauren, keep your trap shut more often and your face out of media for a little while and people might actually want to hear what you have to say a little more.

I'm the opposite, I find what she has to say very interesting.

InWyo wrote:

A LetsRun thread with Lauren Fleshman as a subject, that is almost entirely positive about Lauren Fleshman.

This is HUGE!

Yeah I'm amazed. Other than K. Goucher practically no other runner has endgendered such scorn on this site.

Good on both of them for speaking out on this.

As for the effects of altitude and thyroid, wonder what Joe Vigil would say. He knew a lot about altitude. I'll check up in his book.

You do realize that companies pay her for her opinion right?

What do you do for a living? Now do less of it because you annoy someone at work.. Doesn't make much sense does it?

You don't speak for me wrote:

gaglrs wrote:

I think Lauren is being very honest, but I also feel Lauren is a publicity freak and couldn't stand being left out of the current and hot running news. She makes me a sick to my stomach over her constant need for publicity and attention. Message to Lauren, keep your trap shut more often and your face out of media for a little while and people might actually want to hear what you have to say a little more.

I'm the opposite, I find what she has to say very interesting.

I feel the same. I wouldn't necessarily say I religiously follow Lauren Fleshman, but I've read several things she's written, and they always seem to be carefully thought-out and reasonably well-written. And I've also noted a weird backlash against her, containing elements of super-conformity and sexism.

I find Salazar's attitude towards inhalers sleazy. I don't know what the doping code said about inhalers when Fleshman got hers. However, the latest version of the doping code supports, even encourages, Salazar's attitude. Here's what the USADA "Athlete Guide to the 2015 Prohibited List" says about albuterol inhalers:

Albuterol (urine amount over 1000 ng/mL) and formoterol....are “threshold substances”, which means they may be used in sport without a TUE as long as they are used under a certain threshold .

Given this wording, it seems to me that if inhalers help, a coach who did not encourage athletes to use inhalers would be a fool.

Here's the problem wrote:

I find Salazar's attitude towards inhalers sleazy. I don't know what the doping code said about inhalers when Fleshman got hers. However, the latest version of the doping code supports, even encourages, Salazar's attitude. Here's what the USADA "Athlete Guide to the 2015 Prohibited List" says about albuterol inhalers:

Albuterol (urine amount over 1000 ng/mL) and formoterol....are “threshold substances”, which means they may be used in sport without a TUE as long as they are used under a certain threshold .

Given this wording, it seems to me that if inhalers help, a coach who did not encourage athletes to use inhalers would be a fool.

Testosterone abuse is occurring for the same reason. It's permitted.

Sledge wrote:

This shed more light on the NOP than all of the allegations leveled so far. I hope more athletes come forward and share their experiences and TUE/altitude tent abuse is reviewed heavily. Thank you Lauren Fleshman.

Since they are finding workarounds for TUEs, I think a possible solution to this is to regulate the doctors prescribing them. Like if you supposedly need a TUE, you can only get the prescription from a USADA - approved doctor.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Since they are finding workarounds for TUEs, I think a possible solution to this is to regulate the doctors prescribing them. Like if you supposedly need a TUE, you can only get the prescription from a USADA - approved doctor.

This is a good idea in principle but leaves things wide open for corruption and bribery

Bribey McBribe wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Since they are finding workarounds for TUEs, I think a possible solution to this is to regulate the doctors prescribing them. Like if you supposedly need a TUE, you can only get the prescription from a USADA - approved doctor.

This is a good idea in principle but leaves things wide open for corruption and bribery

As if that's not already happening? At least it will shrink the circle.

The most damning thing Fleshman says is that she is not comfortable with Salazar coaching Mary Cain. That's a strong statement from a leader in women's running.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Sledge wrote:

This shed more light on the NOP than all of the allegations leveled so far. I hope more athletes come forward and share their experiences and TUE/altitude tent abuse is reviewed heavily. Thank you Lauren Fleshman.

Since they are finding workarounds for TUEs, I think a possible solution to this is to regulate the doctors prescribing them. Like if you supposedly need a TUE, you can only get the prescription from a USADA - approved doctor.

The new for 2015 WADA standards moves a little in this direction, but not with certified medical staff.

The IOC needs and wants doping. They would leave huge gaps in the rules to permit PED dealers.

Thanks, Lauren. This is the first coherent account of what is going on with Alberto and the gray areas of TUEs. And may be the tipping point for an avalanche of athletes jumping ship. Pushing the dosages of medications or outright distributing prescription medications without a license is going to take Alberto down. Rupp and Farah are not far behind.

Why do runners feel like they need to protect Mary Cain? Everyone thinks they know what's best for her, but she seems to be very comfortable where she is.

And there is only one leader in women's running:

http://tinyurl.com/oqfym9t

runDirtyrun wrote:

Testosterone abuse is occurring for the same reason. It's permitted.

NO! They have some similarities, but the doping codes treat them very differently. Under WADA code, testosterone is prohibited. It can never be used without a TUE. Anyone who uses testosterone without a TUE is violating the doping code. As the quoted bit makes clear, albuterol can be used without a TUE, as long as daily dosages stay below a certain threshold.

They are similar because the doping code uses blood thresholds for enforcement of testosterone. A testosterone level over that threshold is prima facie evidence for violating the doping code.

In other words, for testosterone, there is a difference between the rule, which says "no exogenous testosterone," and its enforcement standards, which says "blood levels below a certain threshold are assumed to be legal."

This difference gives dishonest runners and coaches an opportunity to cheat. If they can find a way to use testosterone while keeping blood levels below the threshold, they can get away with violating the letter of the code, which says "No T without a TUE."

To see the difference, a runner who told was found injecting testosterone without a TUE could not defend himself by saying his blood levels weren't over the threshold.

Is taking caffeine before a race for the sole purpose of performance enhancing any different than what Salazar is doing?