Some people would actually take Michael Jordan over Lebron James?

Twistedargument wrote:

This whole argument about who has contributed most to teams is flawed. Whether LJ was added to Miami and they started winning or Pippen/others added to Bulls and they started winning is all the same result. No one is arguing that LJ or MJ could win games by themselves. To win the championship a great team is requirement, period. The question is, how are you measuring the GOAT? You need to discuss #of rings, scoring and clutch situations. MJ has these locked down so far, so come back when LJ retires and let us know how the numbers stack up.

I am going to have to deduct you 1/2 point for some reasoning flaws in an otherwise reasonable post. When you say we need to discuss # rings, scoring, and clutch shooting that is reasonable.

But the critical criterion for GOAT has to be that individual players total contribution to the teams success. (That's why you got your deduction) Really you could be the greatest player ever and win no rings. # of rings are a factor but more reflective of the team they played on. If # of rings was a huge factor than the following players would have to be rated higher than Jordan based on # of rings: Russell - 11, Sam Jones - 10, Tom Heinsohn - 8 and there are a bunch more.

Its not just high scoring either. Clutch shooting is a factor but we would need data to determine who is clutch. I haven't seen data.

Bottom line is that you need to measure that individuals effect on the team to determine greatness. The previous poster did that.

BenSi gave the link with the "data" indicating THAT LEBRON IS MORE CLUTCH THAN JORDAN.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/11/8584749/lebron-james-michael-jordan-game-winning-shots

This thread is over, the Jordan worshippers have been seriously thrashed.

Jordan led the league in scoring a record 10 times. He is rhe last player to avg more than 30 in a season. He was also defensive player of the year. So he's been the best offensive player and best defensive player in the league. At times Wade was better than Lebron.

Dan dakich is the only man who could hold Jordan under 10! Lol

Alan

runningart2004 wrote:

He was also defensive player of the year. So he's been the best offensive player and best defensive player in the league.

Say what you will, but Lebron was ripped in 2013 & should have won defensive player of the year. They ended up giving it to Marc Gasol.

3 other players have also won defensive & offensive player of the year. Kevin Garnett, David Robinson, & The Dream.

More history being made by Lebron.

LeBron - five straight Finals.

Jordan never did that.

Magic never did that.

Bird never did that.

Those of us who actually watch the game are witnessing this. Jordan fans are stuck in the past.

Can't compare these two bc of the different eras. Lebron plays pick up bball, Jordan played during the NBAs most competitive period and still dominated. The field is very weak today, so weak that the Hawks come out of nowhere to do well. Back in the real bball days it would take a decade to turn a team around amidst that devastating competition. The game died when Jordan retired.

Sighsighsigh wrote:

Jordan played during the NBAs most competitive period and still dominated. The field is very weak today, so weak that the Hawks come out of nowhere to do well. Back in the real bball days it would take a decade to turn a team around amidst that devastating competition. The game died when Jordan retired.

It may have been competitive, but athletes today are so much bigger, stronger, & faster than the players during Jordan's time.

Jordan simply didn't have to deal with the athleticism of today's studs. For those of us watching the game, we see there are freaks like Blake Griffin & Anthony Davis who are basically 6'10 freaking point guards! Players that size couldn't dribble & move in Jordan's era. Not even close. Could you imagine the damage that Blake Griffin would have done back then? Also, point guards today are also on another level. Meanwhile you have Lebron effectively guarding positions 1-4 & stopping these freaks.

1/10 ~ the word freak gave it away

Sighsighsigh wrote:

Can't compare these two bc of the different eras. Lebron plays pick up bball, Jordan played during the NBAs most competitive period and still dominated.

Actually, as already established, Jordan won his titles in one of the weakest eras in the NBA. The expansion diluted the league.

Jordan retired and the Bulls go from 57 wins to 55 the next year.

LeBron goes to Miami and Cavs go from 61 wins to 19.

LeBron leaves Miami and Heat go from 54 wins to 37 and Cavs go from 33 wins to the NBA Finals.

Enough with the Jorda stuff.

records matter wrote:

Jordan retired and the Bulls go from 57 wins to 55 the next year.

LeBron goes to Miami and Cavs go from 61 wins to 19.

LeBron leaves Miami and Heat go from 54 wins to 37 and Cavs go from 33 wins to the NBA Finals.

Enough with the Jorda stuff.

+ 5, "Record matters" clearly demonstrated the relative impact on teams of Jordan versus Lebron. The number of points scored is a factor (but the greatest offensive player isn't always the highest scorer, championships won are a factor but its confounded by the play of teammates. The best measure comparing two players is the impact that each has on the team. The best measure is how teams did with you and without you. This post was clearly worth a +5.

records matter wrote:

Jordan retired and the Bulls go from 57 wins to 55 the next year.

LeBron goes to Miami and Cavs go from 61 wins to 19.

LeBron leaves Miami and Heat go from 54 wins to 37 and Cavs go from 33 wins to the NBA Finals.

Enough with the Jorda stuff.

Regarding the supporting cast argument, have Irving and Love even played that much during the playoffs? How much did Pippen and Rodman play in the playoffs comparatively?

Come back when LJ retires and tell us how many rings he has. The guy doesn't have the heart to get it done.

TryagainniqquA wrote:

Come back when LJ retires and tell us how many rings he has. The guy doesn't have the heart to get it done.

Huh? He's already got it done at least twice already.

Let's see him do it at least 3 more times, then we can have a real debate

There won't be any competition from husband #3. It's too risky for everyone else. Things might go sour and everyone will find out the real story through him or me trying to get back at each other. He is talented. As long as he contributes long distance and he doesn't try to date me or my sister, he can be my wingman. I'm not trying to recruit all of you. Some of you are interested. Some of you are more suited to being only viewers. Some of you are best as characters I write in, with changed names and faces.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwhtrKMIUIM

beginnersluck wrote:

Let's see him do it at least 3 more times, then we can have a real debate

The Jordan people started with good posts and arguments, now only the Jordan trolls are left. The rest have admitted defeat and ran. Its tough for them to accept that their basketball God is God no more.

BenSi wrote:

More history being made by Lebron.

LeBron - five straight Finals.

Jordan never did that.

Magic never did that.

Bird never did that.

Those of us who actually watch the game are witnessing this. Jordan fans are stuck in the past.

MJ would have won 8 in a row if he hadn't taken time off to hit balls with sticks.

He was a better offensive player than Lebron and a better defensive player and a better free throw shooter.

Alan