Reactions to Justice Dep't study of Ferguson

As usual, Gene can't form a sentence.

Tunney wrote:

You could make a start by moving home in amongst them.

Yeah, thought so.

obvious thought wrote:

Are YOU trolling? Because you didn't provide any evidence as to why my comment would make me "stupid".

Mundus Vult wrote:

Are you trolling? I seriously can't tell if you are really this stupid.

What is your evidence that it's not?

Tunney wrote:

You could make a start by moving home in amongst them.

Yeah, thought so.

What does this even mean? I live on a cul-de-sac with 15 houses on it. We are one of three white families. My neighbors are predominantly working, middle-class African Americans. There is one Latino family and two families with an Asian husband (both Vietnamese) and a Caucasian spouse.

Who are "them"? Seriously, what the hell do you mean?

No surprise.Saying a bunch of white folks are racist is like saying a Leopard is a carnivore.Nature of the beast.

"First Amendment abuses, unreasonable searches and seizures, and excessive and dangerous use of force; exacerbated by severely disproportionate use of these tactics against African Americans; and driven by overriding pressure from the city to use law enforcement not as a public service, but as a tool for raising revenue."

"Ferguson police officers issued nearly 50 percent more citations in the last year than they did in 2010 – an increase that has not been driven, or even accompanied, by a rise in crime."

"Along with taxes and other revenue streams, in 2010, the city collected over $1.3 million in fines and fees collected by the court. For fiscal year 2015, Ferguson’s city budget anticipates fine revenues to exceed $3 million – more than double the total from just five years prior. "

"Some officers even compete to see who can issue the largest number of citations during a single stop – a total that, in at least one instance, rose as high as 14."

"Ferguson police officers routinely violate the Fourth Amendment in stopping people without reasonable suspicion, arresting them without probable cause, and using unreasonable force against them. "

"It’s become common practice for officers in Ferguson to stop pedestrians and request identification for no reason at all."

"The police department’s routine use of Tasers was found to be not merely unconstitutional, but abusive and dangerous. "

"our findings indicated that the overwhelming majority of force – almost 90 percent – is directed against African Americans."

"African Americans made up over 90 percent of those charged with an offense described as “Manner of Walking Along Roadway.” "

"In 2007, one woman received two parking tickets that – together – totaled $152. To date, she has paid $550 in fines and fees to the city of Ferguson. She’s been arrested twice for having unpaid tickets, and spent six days in jail. Yet she still – inexplicably – owes Ferguson $541. And her story is only one of dozens of similar accounts that our investigation uncovered."

"During the summer of 2012, one Ferguson police officer detained a 32-year-old African American man who had just finished playing basketball at a park. The officer approached while the man was sitting in his car and resting. The car’s windows appeared to be more heavily tinted than Ferguson’s code allowed, so the officer did have legitimate grounds to question him. But, with no apparent justification, the officer proceeded to accuse the man of being a pedophile. He prohibited the man from using his cell phone and ordered him out of his car for a pat-down search, even though he had no reason to suspect that the man was armed. And when the man objected – citing his constitutional rights – the police officer drew his service weapon, pointed it at the man’s head, and arrested him on eight different counts. The arrest caused the man to lose his job."

obvious thought wrote:

When stopped, police don't automatically make you get out of the car. You either have to be belligerent or they have to have a suspicion of contraband or intoxication.

You do if you live in Fergeson.

One thing to consider is the specific age demographics of Ferguson. Ferguson has gone from majority white population to a majority black population over the last 20 years. Most of the white population that has stayed in Ferguson is older while the black population in Ferguson is in general fairly young .

This age shift, along with disparities in private school attendance, explains why the high school in Ferguson, Normandy High, is 98% black in a town the Justice Department claims is only 65% black.

http://www.movoto.com/schools/saint-louis-mo/normandy-high-school-292265001248/

.

Without even factoring in racial bias, cops are simply more likely to stop a car driven by a 17 year old than a car driven by a 65 year old. Partially because cops are "biased" against 17 years olds and partially because 17 year olds do stupid (and illegal) things a lot more often than 65 year olds. It may well be that a targeted census of 15-30 year old males in Ferguson (the group most likely to be stopped regardless of race) would reveal a black- white population breakdown that much more closely resembles the actual traffic stop ratios the Justice department has focused in on.

St. Louis, and America as a whole, has deep racial issues. However, I would be vary wary of relying on statistics to prove any alleged prejudicial tendencies. If we start down that road, it is possible to "prove" all sorts of nasty things regarding a certain demographic when only evaluating one variable in isolation.

Read the quotes two posts above yours. It's pretty obvious in this case the statistics reflect racial bias in the police system. I'm usually pretty skeptical on this, but in the Ferguson case, it is obvious that the department had a systemic racial bias against blacks.

exthrower wrote:

Blacks have a far higher crime rate than any group in America....No mystery here...Cops are doing their jobs in a hostile environment and should probably receive combat pay..

Not according to what the Justice department found in Ferguson:

"Ferguson police officers routinely violate the Fourth Amendment in stopping people without reasonable suspicion, arresting them without probable cause, and using unreasonable force against them."

None of these crime statistics are valid if the pattern in Ferguson is as widespread as some suggest.

Again, I am not pointing my fingers at the cops Ferguson (well, maybe some of them). Even the good ones--and the Justice found that the officer who shot Michael Brown was a good cop who acted appropriately--are part of a busted system.

I have no idea what the answer is.

Mundus Vult wrote:

I have no idea what the answer is.

Whatever the answer is, it will not be a simple one, but if we are ever to get an answer the solution must come from both sides taking an active part and responsibility.

We know that there was some white trash working in the police department, but once again nobody wants to mention the criminal, permanent victim segment of the population that continually think laws and responsibility doesn't apply to them.

There will never be progress if each segments solution is lecturing the other.

exthrower wrote:

Eric Holder presides over one of the most corrupt JD's in history...He's an incompetent, Racist, affirmative action hire. This is what happens when jobs are awarded to people based on Race..

So, all is well in the Ferguson police department? Is that your point?

obvious thought wrote:

You just look at statistics like this and think there is a problem. Maybe blacks are more likely to be searched because they don't comply during the traffic stops? We have all seen how angry they get over the being the subject of anything to do with the police. When stopped, police don't automatically make you get out of the car. You either have to be belligerent or they have to have a suspicion of contraband or intoxication.

Stand in front of a mirror and repeat what you said and then come back and post what that felt like.

You are delusional, MV. Willingly delusional, but delusional all the same.

just stop it wrote:

You are delusional, MV. Willingly delusional, but delusional all the same.

How is he delusional?

That's something only he fully knows.

First off, he wouldn't last five minutes as a Ferguson police officer.

If the police WEREN'T doing enough to protect the law-abiding citizens you' d have people singing "911 is a Joke". (Google it.)

They just can't win.

How convenient it is to be an armchair police officer.

just stop it wrote:

That's something only he fully knows.

First off, he wouldn't last five minutes as a Ferguson police officer.

If the police WEREN'T doing enough to protect the law-abiding citizens you' d have people singing "911 is a Joke". (Google it.)

They just can't win.

How convenient it is to be an armchair police officer.

You are bringing weak stuff, meat. (Google it).

Mundus Vult wrote:

exthrower wrote:

Blacks have a far higher crime rate than any group in America....No mystery here...Cops are doing their jobs in a hostile environment and should probably receive combat pay..

Not according to what the Justice department found in Ferguson:

"Ferguson police officers routinely violate the Fourth Amendment in stopping people without reasonable suspicion, arresting them without probable cause, and using unreasonable force against them."

None of these crime statistics are valid if the pattern in Ferguson is as widespread as some suggest.

Again, I am not pointing my fingers at the cops Ferguson (well, maybe some of them). Even the good ones--and the Justice found that the officer who shot Michael Brown was a good cop who acted appropriately--are part of a busted system.

I have no idea what the answer is.

You keep arguing with statistics by saying "they stop black people more." Black people commit more crimes! Not because they are being stopped more. Don't try to tell me that TONS of black people are being prosecuted for crimes they didn't commit. Maybe they are being stopped more despite innocence, but they are being stopped more because they are more likely to commit crimes. It blows my mind that some people cant grasp this.

just stop it wrote:

That's something only he fully knows.

First off, he wouldn't last five minutes as a Ferguson police officer.

If the police WEREN'T doing enough to protect the law-abiding citizens you' d have people singing "911 is a Joke". (Google it.)

They just can't win.

How convenient it is to be an armchair police officer.

You didn't really make any arguments against the points he has brought up.

But you and some of your cohorts keep citing national statistics and ignoring the findings of the report, that often the white people being questioned were MORE likely to be guilty of a crime, and in spite of that more black people were seemingly targeted. If you are aiming at your target audience why aren't they targeting the more likely to be committing a crime white folk?