Recruiting Visits..... what is normal?

Why is judith worrying about her daughter first being exposed to alcohol around a bunch of people she's JUST MET mean judith is a helicopter parent?? As a female in college, the first rule of drinking is never do it around people you don't know without having a friend with you.

I had very hands off parents and still stayed away from alcohol in high school by my own choosing. It would have made me feel VERY unconformable to be around a bunch of drunk 18-23yr olds as a 17 yr old HS senior. Helicopter parents had nothing to do with it.

But it's not surprising that judith is getting so much flack on here. Letsrun is full of males like "average dad" who thinks it's NOT at all sexist or misogynistic that he makes statements like "Judith's daughter is going to be the one walking funny at the first saturday practice after going to a house party with the men's sprint team friday night."

There has been some great feedback on this post, and most I appreciate.

There have also been many assumptions from my original post, and that is just fine, because there is only so much information one can gather from a forum post, without it directly being offered up... for example, that I am the mother of a female recruit, or that this particular recruit that I heard the account from was female, or my child, or that I am a mother for that matter. This could just as well have been an account from a male runner, who witnessed the happenings, turned off by them, repeated the account to an Aunt/Uncle/Brother/Sister/Neighbor/Club Member/Cousin/Ape, etc

Does it really matter?

Again, these details aren't really important to what it was I was attempting to gather insight on.

As far as "average dad" is concerned, I would say his comments rank up there among the absolute most despicable and inappropriate of all of them thus far, let's just hope, and assume, that aren't actually from a father, but instead an common troll. If he is a father, let's hope he hasn't procreated any boys in his likeness.

As far as "average dad" is concerned, I would say his comments rank up there among the absolute most despicable and inappropriate of all of them thus far. Let's just hope and assume they aren't actually from a father, but instead a common troll.

If he is a father, let's hope he hasn't procreated any boys in his likeness.

Sexist? Misogynistic? Are you kidding me?

I'm a sex-positive, body-positive, feminist. Proud father of a daughter (and a son).

You're projecting your own sexism and negativity onto my post. I support judith's daughters decisions no matter what they are.

I also take delight in knowing that her daughter is probably much happier and free-er than judith, and that she'll probably assert her independence in ways that make uptight helicopter parents like judith uncomfortable.

It's ironic that being a true feminist gets you called a sexist here. I guess I should have said judith should keep her daughter at home until she found a suitable husband to take care of her.

Once again, I agree with Judith on something. You are disgusting. Pretty sick that a so-called feminist dad thinks it's a great idea for girls to "make choices" to get banged by the entire sprint crew, all in the name of feminism and the freedom to make decisions. Yeah, that's progress for women, all right. I'm sure it leads the young lady to feel really "sex-positive" . Not likely. More like a worthless sex toy.

I had one recruiting visit that got out of control in a good way. No suprise that it was at a school notorious for partying where fun is not hard to find. It was a great weekend, but also provided me motivation not to sign there when the cobwebs cleared. The rest of the visits (4 other schools) were pretty tame. Sounds like what you describe was out of the ordinary even for the "runner" in your post and that alone should tell you something. Having said that, it is college and part of the college experience, like it or not, is partying. Age not a real big factor in all of it unfortunately. I will say that in my experience, both as a recruit and a college athlete, most of my peers were more focused on school and running than partying, especially in the world of mid D and distance runners.

Is it just me or are recruiting visits kind of awkward?

My kid had settled on a school and was going to play tennis there. On the recruiting weekend, the team played dumb...s drinking games. He"s a serious tennis player and was turned off and didn't enroll. The coach was a former frat boy at the school. The buck stops with the college president.

I will attempt to enlighten you a little, even though you didn't listen to the other advice.

Fine. I have experienced the recruiting process.

OK, this is how recruiting visits work. It has been this way since the 1960s at least (my coach told me how his visits went at WMU, Miami of Ohio, and U of M, MSU, etc. and he ran in the 60s). My visits went this way about 20 yrs ago). I went on 5 official visits and visited 2 other schools with one other HS runner who was interested in going to these two schools. We even ran in an indoor meet at one school. The coach did not know we were there. We got to see what the lifestyle was like without being lead around by an athlete or a coach. At both schools we stayed with a first year that we knew from our high school. We probably spent $20 a day besides the cost of the meet.

Some of my visits started on Friday morning if my parents drove me. Sometimes they toured the campus with me for a few hours, before dropping me at the coaches building. Sometimes I was to meet the coach around lunchtime on Friday and the coach wanted me to visit the dorm on a "good" day (Saturday and Sun are kind of bleak) so we would go over there for lunch. Sometimes we met in the afternoon, just before practice and then I got to run regular practice that afternoon. It seemed dependent on whether the team had an indoor meet at home or not.

Sometimes I was to show up on Saturday morning. Meet the team, go for a run, go to breakfast with team, meet with coach again to highlight some aspect of Campus (often the college you thought you were going to major in).

In every case once the coach introduced you to team, and spent 1-2 hours with you, he partnered you up with 1-3 of his runners. When there was more than one recruit there (besides me) he would partner you up with people that (he thought) were more or less like you. Mid-distance guys with MD recruits, black guys from black schools with the same, wimpy distance guys with guys from wimpy-white-suburbs, that kind of thing.

It was interesting, because sometimes they got it wrong. Somehow, a couple coaches must have got the wrong intel, because I was a serious student (Honor Society) and I was gonna be majoring in EE. So even though they had a guy who had won the BIG 10 10k and majored in Engineering, he put me with two roommates (who were freshman) who were pretty far from me in personality and purpose

Anyway, what you write is correct. But I think you mean "the recruit is exposed to (what seems like) a culture of alcohol and partying." I don't think you can be exposed "to a (seeming) culture".

Also, of course the recruit is "a high school senior, age of 17." Nobody else can go on official visits. Of course there "were other running recruits there, also 17-18." That is normal. Nobody wants to do these visits during the XC season if they can avoid it. You have invites and Championship meets on Saturdays in the Fall. So visits take place for most recruits on a handful of weekends in Nov, Jan and Feb usually. And again, YES everyone will of course be 17-18.

Yes, this happens at college. Did you go or are you still in high school? I was not straight edge, but I was not a drinker in HS. I still am not now, just doesn't do anything for me. Doesn't make me feel any better, I think it makes some kids feel more at ease (in situations where they really feel nervous) and makes them feel like they "fit in" better. Let's face it, when all the people on an entire team of say 25-40 distance runners, you feel like you fit in if you go along with it. Anyway, I did not drink and nobody hassled me about it. It probably had to do more with the fact that the freshman and sophs had run against me and were still not faster than what they had done the year before (and therefore slower than me). We all know that (in running) you can't criticize anyone faster than you.

Anyway, I was probably made fun of after I left, but I did not care. I figured that if they could deal with me for two days, it would be smoother dealing with me for the next 3-4 yrs.

It would make sense that 3/4 would be underaged. When you are a frosh, you are 18/19, next year 19/20, next yr 20/21. Since most visits happen in early winter or Fall. Only some of the juniors would be legal and all of the 4th and 5th years.

You must be in HS still, because anyone who has gone to college knows that not only is there drinking, people get wasted, and many males feel the more they drink the cooler they are. The drinking almost always gets out of control. Maybe not at RUNNING parties, but at general parties. I went to college when you could still bring kegs into dorms and apartments pretty easily and that always lead to drinking games and competitions. This always lead to "getting wasted" as you call it.

Three of the schools I visited were UofM, MSU and Wisconsin. I assumed that it would be "cleaner" at UofM (because they perpetuate that stuck-up attitude - not the team but the School) and Wisco (because their team was so good). I was wrong, it was the same at all three schools.

The MSU coach had previously run for Wisco (and I had 15 yrs of experience going to Southern Wisconsin for Summers) and he even had a talk with us before going out on Friday night (he said, "If you must drink, go ahead. I wouldn't ask you to not drink completely. Just don't get HAMMERED!"). He was a multi-time All-American.

Can't really see how you make it to the second half of your senior year without being offered alcohol? Taking them up on it, YES, I can see that. But what 18 year old in the US has not been at a party and had someone push alcohol on them? If you haven't, it is almost a god thing that the college kids gave it to you, then you know how it affects you and 20 other (relatively smart) college distance runners are around you, versus 30 other idiots from your HS.

You always have the choice to turn it down. I got offered alcohol starting at age 12 (in Summer in Wisconsin), by 10-12 yr olds who were already drinking regularly. I don't think that is normal or good, but it was just the way it was. It continued like that until last week for me!!

I would always turn it down and they would say, "Are you an athlete?" So, I guess I was not the only square they met.

Yes, see above. the drinking at my official visits was pretty tame or weak. The boys mostly drank beer or didn't drink. The girls drank wine coolers, sometimes cheap wine, and sometimes beer or didn't drink. Girls were not hassled if they didn't drink, either on my visits or when in college. Every guy is so desperate to hook up with the girls on the team that they would never make fun of them. Of course, some girls control what they drink the same way they control what they eat. Guys on the XC team don't control what they eat at all. Always struck me as funny how all of us (myself included) were dying to get with a track girl, and we ignored the 20,000 other girls at school.

Anyway, at one visit, there was a group of 3-4 smoking pot at a party, they were not athletes. The guys who I was staying with just said, "Let's leave for a while." I was glad because that is what I always did at a HS party. Just did not want to breathe it in.

Reading through this I am guessing you have to be still in HS, or are a Mormon. Even though I don't drink or smoke, I have lived around a BIG 10 town my whole life and have you never seen college kids drinking on Game Day, or just drinking on ANY DAY? Close to 100% of kids drink at some point during the week.

I wish it wasn't this way, but the sooner you realize the world is like this the sooner you can adjust to it.

And they WERE doing that. That is what " their academic and athletic futures" were going to be full of. It is too bad, but getting hooked up with a fake ID and going out to the bar with some girls you look up to is likely the coolest thing a XC girl in 12th grade might have done.

Think about it, you go to a bigger, or at least more exciting town than your own. You get to go out with 5 or 10 girls who are just like you ... TO A BAR you have NEVER BEEN TO BEFORE!! You see a bunch of cool guys that you have never met before. What's not to like?

A girl (or a boy) is going to be in just that situation in just 6-7 months time in the first month of school. They better know what they will do and how they will handle it. You know, you CAN GO TO A BAR without drinking or getting drunk, or sleeping with a stranger? I do it all the time.

I learned how to turn down the peer pressure when I was 11 and 12.

See above. Multiple instances. I would say (at least in the Midwest) that this IS THE TYPICAL experience. I remember going to indoor meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays after EVERY one of my visits and the guys I raced against every other week saying things like, "Man, how are you doing after visiting XXXXX? I heard it was sick Man!! I heard from Costello that he got wasted and fingered some skank on the team!?! I still feel wasted from my party on Saturday at XXXXX!"

Since I never really felt the need to drink at my HS, I just kind of shrugged this off (like I did with everything else at school) and got on with what I was there for ... running the races.

I have and I hope it will adjust your expectations. If you are a parent, it is a tough world out there and somehow you were not exposed to the same one we all were when you were young.

If you are a HS runner, get ready for this. This is what college is like everywhere (except Brigham Young) and you are going to have to decide how to deal with it even if you don't run for University.

Judith- three letters for you if this is not the experience your daughter wants to have.

B-Y-U

Otherwise she should get used to college life after the first couple weeks and won't even mention such an experience to you as it's the norm.

Are you a sheltered adult, OP? I can't imagine any high school kid would feel surprised at college drinking. In fact the average high school girl would feel surprised if the team DIDN'T go out on a weekend.

Which College was it?

If you raised your kid right, he/she will be able to handle any situation on a visit. Good that they were exposed to the partying, as it will make their college choice easier.

Spot on, OPP. I went on 2 official D1 visits - one ivy, one a pretty prestigious state school. That was exactly my experience. Some girls partied pretty hard. I chose not to drink and didn't feel pressured at all, but it was clear there were a few who regularly got shit faced, but somehow pulled through the informal Sunday long runs. I ended up attending the ivy. Our coaches knew we drank, but didn't (couldn't) know the details of specifically who and to what extent. I do distinctly remember them cracking down on us whenever stories got out of pathetic behavior or it appeared to adversely affect our training. They earned our respect, and most of us kept the partying to a minimum because we did not want to squander our talent and disappoint our coaches. I think that was the best middle ground given the current attitude and realities of underage drinking on campus.

Just be glad recruits are getting an accurate picture of the team and the school. Nobody wants to figure that out their first semester.

Sounds pretty normal to me. Not every school visit is like that, but a lot are. I was not interested in alcohol much either in high school or college, so when I visited one big name university (one of the best running schools at the time) and found the team was about 90% drunk low lifes, I decided I'd fit in better somewhere else.

Coaches just need athletes to come to their school, so they will do damn near anything to get them to come. A high school standout came to visit who would later go on to make a big impact at the NCAA level. Our coach told us to do anything, whatever it took to get him to come there, even if we had to tell him bold faced lies.

I will also say that what you see on a recruiting visits is often not the real picture. Everything is sunshine and rainbows, everyone is happy, nobody has problems, etc, even if the reality is that the coach is a psychopath and everyone hates the program. There will usually be one or two athletes who will at least hint at how things are most of the time. It is wise of a recruit to try to talk to as many of the university athletes as possible and poke and prod to get the truth out of them.

Just fyi, I ended up being enchanted by a coach and his recruiting ways only to find out he was a horrible person that everyone hated, and I ended up leaving the school because of it along with about 4/5 guys in the program.

You get what you expect to get.

Big State U is going to be party central.

Fraternity heavy university- party hard.

Ivy League- 50/50 party & study

Small Religions U- minimal drinking, more pedestrian activities

Commuter college- no weekend activities, everyone goes home

The larger the university the more diversity of activities.

I graduated college a couple of years ago. I went on several recruiting visits myself in high school and also hosted recruits while at college.

It's a mixed bag really. I did overnights at 3 schools. 1 was a relaxed night in, 1 was the day before a meet so they had a movie night, and 1 was a party. All 3 visits were fun, there was no pressure to drink and I didnt.

When we hosted recruits in college it was generally 50-50 on whether we would party with them. It really depended on what they were like, and when they were visiting. I will say that I know for a fact that we lost several good recruits to other schools because we didn't take them out during their visit.

Benedict wrote:

Agree that this is more of the norm.

However, unless the rules have changed, a recruit cannot run with the team.

Very true. A team can get in a lot of trouble for any behavior that can be seen as a "tryout" Aka running with the team