What do you think of this NCAA Policy...........I think it's dispicable........Basically it's lying by omission

He's an anti-vaxxer, so he lies to himself all the time. He's use to it.

Parent of top recruit wrote:

My HS runner is a top recruit for track and cross country. We have been told by every school recruiting our child that a full scholarship is coming. Do the NCAA rules allow all kids in all sports to not sign the NLI, or is it just the football players that don't have to? Why would any kid with leverage choose to sign if they can just sign the financial aid package thing? To me, honestly, for running, you are picking the coach, with the school as a secondary factor.

I would like to hear more about this financial aid package thing? Is he saying turn down the scholarship and try to get financial aid? If your household income is too high, financial aid is not an option. In my son's case, the coach is DEFINITELY a big part of the decision making process.

Read this article. http://www.maizenbrew.com/2015/2/6/7992561/recruits-with-leverage-should-never-sign-letters-of-intent-mike-weber-roquan-smith-cece-jefferson I am just am not sure if this applies to our kids in a non-revenue sport. I am pretty sure the financial aid package is signed regardless of whether or not the NLI is signed. I know I would be pretty angry if my child signed and the coach moved on right afterwards. Which is why we are mostly looking at schools where the coach has been around for a little while.

The problem is you can never really know if the coach lied.

Coaching is a little different than most jobs. At least some of the time, coaches don't have to apply. They just get an offer they can't refuse.

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This both ways - especially in Olympic sports.

It is not true (especially in track/xc) that coaches "reduce" athletic aid.

So a kid who was great in HS and gets a scholarship, doesn't have to do anything more than stay eligible and not get into serious trouble with the law.

both sides of mouths wrote:

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This both ways - especially in Olympic sports.

It is not true (especially in track/xc) that coaches "reduce" athletic aid.

So a kid who was great in HS and gets a scholarship, doesn't have to do anything more than stay eligible and not get into serious trouble with the law.[/quote]

Yeah. A kid would have to do a lot to actually have their scholarship reduced or taken away. Most of the time they just out right quit the team and the situation takes care of itself.

Parent of top recruit wrote:

Do the NCAA rules allow all kids in all sports to not sign the NLI, or is it just the football players that don't have to? Why would any kid with leverage choose to sign if they can just sign the financial aid package thing? To me, honestly, for running, you are picking the coach, with the school as a secondary factor.

Signing an NLI is voluntary--no athlete is required to do it. The NLI does not grant athletes any rights to admission or financial aid. It commits him/her to go to that school (with penalties attached) and means other schools may no longet recruit that athlete

The Grant-in-aid paperwork is what commits the school financially. It is entirely separate from the NLI

I suspect most schools try to tie these together and most athletes sign because they dont know any better. Some high profile basketball recruits (with leverage) have been declining to sign NLIs

inhouse wrote:

What I've never understood about this situation is why a coach who is leaving for another school would waste the time recruiting for their current school.

I just changed jobs a few months ago. I worked hard for my now former employer until I left. I am in the same field and will continue to interact with them. I may want to work there again some day in a higher position. Coaching is not different.

So, if a recruit refuses to sign the NLI, but signs the Grant-in-aid paperwork, it is commits the school to the athlete and the athlete is \"safe\" and won\'t lose their scholarship? Would a coach look askance at an athlete who verbally commits, signs the grant paperwork, but doesn\'t want to sign the NLI? Why would any kid sign the NLI?? Just so their phone stops ringing from other schools?

mr. obvious wrote:

inhouse wrote:

What I've never understood about this situation is why a coach who is leaving for another school would waste the time recruiting for their current school.

I just changed jobs a few months ago. I worked hard for my now former employer until I left. I am in the same field and will continue to interact with them. I may want to work there again some day in a higher position. Coaching is not different.

Originally when I posted I was thinking that it's sleazy for a coach to recruit if he knows he's taking another job and not tell recruits that. But as I thought about this some more I actually think that not telling recruits could be the right thing to do.

Let's say I'm head cross country and track coach at Big University A. My job is to make those teams at BUA as good as I can and recruiting the best athletes I can and then training them as well as I can are perhaps my main tools. It's my job to do that.

So I'm recruiting some kids and also talking with Big University B about becoming head cross country and track coach there. Eventually I have an agreement with BUB and on Tuesday of the upcoming week I'm going there to sign a contract, be formally introduced as head coach, and will officially tell the administration at BUA that I'm leaving.

But that's Tuesday. On Monday I'm still coach at BUA and my job is still to do whatever I can to make their teams as successful as I can. If I have a recruit who's going to sign a letter of intent on Monday I don't think I'm doing my job if I discourage him from attending BUA which, after all is a decision he's supposed to have made on the merits of the school itself anyway. If I tell him I'm leaving I could be accused of sabotaging the program at BUA. And as I'm not going to be coaching there how do I stand to benefit personally or professionally from having that kid sign with BUA? It would be more helpful to me and my career to let him know what I'm about to do and hope he'll switch schools and follow me. And as you point out, someday I may want to work at BUA again and would prefer that they see me as a guy who left their program in good shape.

So in your world lying is OK because the ends justify the means.

HRE

I think everyone understands the guise of what the coaches do and how they justify their actions. On Monday they are employed by X so they are bound to do the best for X, and on Tuesday they are employed by Y blah blah...

The better question to you is, why not just tell the truth? Then the kid is still free to go the school even w/o you there, or he can follow you, or go somewhere else.

Why is the truth so hard??

Parent of top recruit wrote:

So, if a recruit refuses to sign the NLI, but signs the Grant-in-aid paperwork, it is commits the school to the athlete and the athlete is "safe" and won't lose their scholarship? Would a coach look askance at an athlete who verbally commits, signs the grant paperwork, but doesn't want to sign the NLI? Why would any kid sign the NLI?? Just so their phone stops ringing from other schools?

They may well look askance at that kid.

There is a lot out there on this issue that you should read as a parent

Why tell the kid you're changing jobs? Again, if I recruit a kid who I think will help School A and I'm no longer coaching at School A how do I benefit from doing something that keeps that kid at School A? If I've been selling this kid on "School A looks to be a great match for you" and I meant that why would I want to do something that changes his decision? The self serving thing to do here would be to tell the kid that I'm leaving and hope he follows me.

Reading is fundamental wrote:

My point exactly!!!!!! ITS NOT ABOUT THE COACH LEAVING, ITS ABOUT LYING ABOUT HAVING A JOB LINED UP.

What do you imagine the implications would be if the coach said, "I'm actually leaving for a different school soon, but I'm sure the new coach would love to have you."

It's definitely unfair, but coaching is a profession and like all professions, people change jobs frequently. Unless you're a big time football/basketball player with professional aspirations, student/athlete is NOT a profession. Yes, lying is bad, but coaches lie all the time. Say MIchigan wants to deny Ohio State a qb recruit. They're not so high on him but they tell him in two years he could be their starting qb. The recruit would be crazy to sign with Michigan if the recruiter told the truth.

The best thing for recruits is don't believe the hype, even if it's about you. Check out the school/program which won't change. Don't commit just because of one individual because that individual could leave at any time.

I currently run XC and T&F at an NCAA institution. My coach left after accepting a job at his alma mater approximately ten days before we were to report for the first day of practice. He has remained close to his university since his graduation, and the speculation of his departure with the winding down of the program director's career seemed imminent. Regardless, our coach continued e-mail correspondence as though he would be our head coach this year. I admired his professionalism once he called each and every athlete, including the freshmen he had recruited to attend our school. I have no ill will toward this behavior, and it would behoove these athletes to take a lesson from their unfortunate circumstances about how to conduct yourself as a man.

New Ohio State recruit Mike Weber who recently fell victim to positon coach lying to him wears a Michigan shirt to workouts.

http://columbus.suntimes.com/ohio-state-buckeyes/7/98/98734/mike-weber-michigan-shirt

I LOVE IT!

HRE wrote:

Why tell the kid you're changing jobs? Again, if I recruit a kid who I think will help School A and I'm no longer coaching at School A how do I benefit from doing something that keeps that kid at School A? If I've been selling this kid on "School A looks to be a great match for you" and I meant that why would I want to do something that changes his decision? The self serving thing to do here would be to tell the kid that I'm leaving and hope he follows me.

So you don't think any part of your sell job to the recruit is an implied idea that YOU would be coaching him?

C'mon dude . I dont think you even believe your own BS. You're just arguing for the sake of debate.

Bottom line: Being a truthful person is a good thing. Being a liar is not.