My new Cholesterol readings. I don't want to take statins!

AS you may have gathered, I am not a big fan of the "paleo diet" for various reasons. Some interpretations of it, when one is exercising a lot, and eating the right amount of calories, and one is eating lots of veggies, I am sure is fine. But, again, overall, not a big fan, if you care for me to elaborate on why that is, just ask. If not, let's move on-

Your LDL was CRAZY low here. Lowest I've ever seen on no drugs. So I think you have seriously hit the genetic jack-pot as far as LDL is concerned, or you made this up, or misread results. Your HDL was fine, your ratio was great. There was CERTAINLY no need to change your diet based on your cholesterol #'s at least (the ldl was so low naturally, I do wonder if there is any potential negative there, but I doubt it. )

Your #s are still of course pretty amazing, including TG's. I wouldn't say any better than before, but just amazingly low LDL, and good HDL still. As far as HDL specifically, while it is a marker for good health, and it is better to be in the right range, having a high HDL naturally, or raising it via drugs, and probably also raising via diet too (your higher sat fat likely raised it), isn't necessarily indicative that you improved your health or created a protective effect. Read the below. In fact, the benefits of a high HDL have been questioned for awhile, but people like CULT_FIT_CLOWN ignore this, and triumphantly proclaim that "Sat fat raises HDL! LDL too, but who cares!"

So.....still great numbers, but no real improvement with your big diet change, in my opinion.

To be honest, I am not sure about issues related to very low TG's. Again, this is generally a positive thing. But I'll see if find anything.

Sounds like you can eat whatever you want, at least as far as blood cholesterol goes.

Carlos in Tijuana wrote:

Walking out the door every morning is a killer. Zero booze intake here. I'll keep my coffee until further notice. My sole vice.

Yes, keep your coffee. Coffee consumption is linked to lower risk of dementia/Alzheimer's, and diabetes. Moderation is not linked to any health issues. Some of the healthiest "foods" have caffeine naturally (green and black tea, dark chocolate/cocoa, coffee).

Actually, zero booze is linked to earlier mortality than moderate booze intake, FWIW. But don't drink if it is not for you.

Coffee can be a problem if you have blood pressure issues, but otherwise it's fine. Green tea also seems to have a huge protective effect, provided you drink a lot of it -- Japanese study I read found something like 28% CVD mortality reduction in those drinking 6 cups a day.

Ho Hum wrote:

Coffee can be a problem if you have blood pressure issues, but otherwise it's fine. Green tea also seems to have a huge protective effect, provided you drink a lot of it -- Japanese study I read found something like 28% CVD mortality reduction in those drinking 6 cups a day.

Agreed. The green tea studies are not perfect, as most epi studies of course are not. However, clinical trials have shown reduced blood pressure, cholesterol, and other good markers of health improvements, and many cell studies demonstrate an anti-cancer capability. Lastly, there are definitely some minor weight loss/fat loss improvements due to increased metabolism/fat burning .No guarantee, but it appears that there are potentially many benefits to even moderate consumption of green tea (some studies also showed improve exercise endurance, even without caffeine, in mice and rats. However, the human studies have not really panned out in this regard, but it does seem to promote some improved fat burning).

Paleo Convert wrote:

2010 (pre paleo):

HDL: 48

LDL: 46

2014 (after 2 years of paleo):

HDL: 64

LDL: 60

Bro, congratulations on taking your health in your own hands and improving your life through the paleo lifestyle.

Your HDL improved significantly, this is great. Don't worry about LDL, try to improve HDL further.

I recommend raising HDL to the 70's range. LDL may go up a bit too but that is expected and not harmful.

Are you sure you're getting enough sat fat? If not, try to add some butter/ghee, coconut oil etc to your meals...

report back!

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

Bro, congratulations on taking your health in your own hands and improving your life through the paleo lifestyle.

Your HDL improved significantly, this is great. Don't worry about LDL, try to improve HDL further.

I recommend raising HDL to the 70's range. LDL may go up a bit too but that is expected and not harmful.

Are you sure you're getting enough sat fat? If not, try to add some butter/ghee, coconut oil etc to your meals...

report back!

Please dear God make you a 100% troll (I know this part of your shtick sometimes, but It seemed clear that you were also sincere about much of your advice in the past). Can anyone be this dense/ignorant of facts in front of him??

a) he didn't improve anything. His #'s are great either way

b) if you took one second to read the links I provided you, having a high HDL via diet or drugs or genes appears to do nothing for you. Having a high LDL on the other hand is now considered, more than ever, a SERIOUS cvd risk factor (yes, this guy doesn't need to "worry about ldl", but just about everyone else needs to be aware/worry about it if it gets high)

Please God, don't tell me there are really people this stupid.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

Please God, don't tell me there are really people this stupid.

Oh, the irony!

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

a) he didn't improve anything.

Yes, he did. He improved his HDL. ALso, his triglycerides numbers are great and were probably sky high before due to his high carb diet.

Win/Win.

Only fools like you refuse to accept FACTS.

Moron.

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

a) he didn't improve anything.

Yes, he did. He improved his HDL. ALso, his triglycerides numbers are great and were probably sky high before due to his high carb diet.

1) "improved his HDL" - for the 1000th time, that likely means nothing:

Will you EVER comment on the above information, or will you just continue to ignore it?

2) TG's - we don't know what they were before. Don't assume what you don't know

Getting back to "Duane", I certainly would hope and encourage you to work with a lipid specialist, it does sound like you have familial hypercholesterolemia (and there are various sub-types within), but very hard/unlikely to lower your numbers without a statin. Being on a statin is not a death sentence, but more a wise action to help significantly reduce your risk of heart disease, stroke and possibly dementia.

I was very resistant to taking a statin when they first came out, and felt that they were being offered only for Big Pharma to make big money. As I saw more and more evidence and people affected by high cholesterol/high LDL's, I decided that I didn't want a date with the business end of a surgeon's scalpel or spend a night in ICU. I like my running to be chest-pain free.

As to fat consumption, consuming Crisco, lard, beef tallow, or other animal fats is still very likely to increase LDL's. Increasing LDLs are one' greatest risk for increasing CAD risk, (other than not exercising or smoking). Not to mention how the lard/beef tallow may be treated to actually INCREASE trans fats )or whether the animals were raised on a diet of steroids).

Would a person that runs want to start smoking? No.

Would a person that runs want to stop running? No.

Would a person that runs want to increase their risk of CAD/chest pain from lard, beef tallow and other highly saturated fats? I would hope not, I certainly don't.

Would I take a statin for preventative purposes, given my family history (father, uncle, aunt from same family tree all with CVD). Yes, I do, and my cholesterol dropped from 210 to 160 per the latest bloodwork.

Have any of you read "The Great Cholesterol Myth?"

On the Amazon summary the authors state the following:

"Myth–High cholesterol is the cause of heart disease.

Fact–Cholesterol is only a minor player in the cascade of inflammation which is a cause of heart disease.

Myth–High cholesterol is a predictor of heart attack.

Fact–There is no correlation between cholesterol and heart attack.

Myth–Lowering cholesterol with statin drugs will prolong your life.

Fact–There is no data to show that statins have a significant impact on longevity.

Myth–Statin drugs are safe.

Fact–Statin drugs can be extremely toxic including causing death.

Myth–Statin drugs are useful in men, women and the elderly.

Fact–Statin drugs do the best job in middle-aged men with coronary disease.

Myth–Statin drugs are useful in middle-aged men with coronary artery disease because of its impact on cholesterol.

Fact–Statin drugs reduce inflammation and improve blood viscosity (thinning blood). Statins are extremely helpful in men with low HDL and coronary artery disease.

Myth–Saturated fat is dangerous.

Fact–Saturated fats are not dangerous. The killer fats are the transfats from partially hydrogenated oils.

Myth–The higher the cholesterol, the shorter the lifespan.

Fact–Higher cholesterol protects you from gastrointestinal disease, pulmonary disease and hemorrhagic stroke.

Myth–A high carbohydrate diet protects you from heart disease.

Fact–Simple processed carbs and sugars predispose you to heart disease.

Myth–Fat is bad for your health.

Fact–Monounsaturated and saturated fats protect you from metabolic syndrome. Sugar is the foe in cardiovascular disease.

Myth–There is good (HDL) cholesterol and bad (LDL) cholesterol.

Fact–This is over-simplistic. You must fractionate LDL and HDL to assess the components.

Myth–Cholesterol causes heart disease.

Fact–Cholesterol is only a theory in heart disease and only the small component of LP(a) or “bb shot” LDL predisposes one to oxidation and inflammation."

Ken in VA wrote:

Have any of you read "The Great Cholesterol Myth?"

No.

Myth: Popular books on fad diet ideas are good sources of health information

FACT: These books take advantage of ignorant people who get excited when they see a book that "OVERTURNS!" and "DESTROYS" all of the widely held current knowledge in health, and cherry pick and exaggerate every tiny bit of info that they think proves their case, while ignoring, tons, and tons of contrary information.

Myth: The amazon summary of that book lists many accurate myth/fact statements

FACT: 95 % of those "FACTS" are not facts, and 95% of those "MYTHS" are not actually myths.

That's a good book. It is one of many books that takes apart the bad science and the house of cards that has been allowed to propagate into the mainstream. I'm a researcher myself and it's laughable sometimes what passes for science in the medical literature. Or at least it would be laughable if it weren't for all the people suffering ill health unnecessarily.

Ok... I've read through a great deal of this thread, and just like any other nutrition debate, it has seemingly went nowhere.

So, with that being said, this is my personal account with a high protein-low carb food intake. Take it for what it is worth...

-no blood tests

-almost 36 years old

-very active... still train at a high intensity in speed/power events

This has been a gradual process over the last 3 years, with the most dramatic changes being the last 8 months. I'll cut straight to the chase...

About 8 months ago, I cut my 'whole grain' cereal out of my daily food intake, and replaced it with a high protein 'smoothie'...

1 cup of blueberries

3 raw eggs

1 cup of Fage 2% greek yogurt

1 tablespoon of Flax seed oil

1 scoop of whey protein

water

Within a few weeks, a small difference in body composition was being seen, and I was actually feeling better from a energy standpoint later in the morning.

My lunch 'routine' has remained virtually the same... chicken, black beans, a few veggies

Like my breakfast, my dinner has also changed. Up until about 4 months ago, I consumed a fair serving of rice, almost nightly. I enjoy sushi, so this is where most of it came from. Along with the sushi, I would also consume some beef, or guacamole. It might sound strange, but guac goes well with sushi. In the last 4 months, this has changed. My dinner now consists of a larger portion of protein (chicken breast or steak), fat (bacon), and my favorite Kale salad from the local grocery store. No rice, or bread.

The bacon is thick cut, and the usual serving is 5-6 slices.

OK, to the final point......... 1 month ago, I did a DEXA body composition scan - 6.7%. Previous tests have yielded on average 10%. My training is the best that it has been in years, and maybe the best it has ever been... literally, my baseline power-testing numbers are actually better than ever. Yes, ever.

I understand that I am relatively young, and obviously training at a higher level than the vast majority of folks my age. But, the food intake has absolutely had a positive impact on both the training, and ultimately, body composition.

I also understand that this does not mean that from a blood lipid standpoint, etc., that this is healthy. Like I said, I do not have blood test results to present.

This is just a very broad self-analysis of some changes that have taken place in my own food intake. The training has not changed, only the food intake... but, there has been a noticeable difference in body composition.

Just my experience, take it for what it's worth.

With all due respect, your anonymous, unscientific, uncontrolled, lacking many important details, anecdote isn't worth a lot to the rest of us. If what you are doing works for you, great, keep it up. A few quick points:

* not that you said you were, but your diet is obviously not "paleo" by any means (dairy, legumes, etc). Just pointing that out for others

* it is well known that if you increase protein, increase the intensity and volume of your workouts and weight training, and slightly cut fat OR carb calories, one should most definitely add some muscle, and cut some body fat. This looks like what you did, so it's not surprising (you could have cut fat calories instead of carb w/ same/similar results)

* blueberries, black beans, dairy, and some veggies (all of which you eat) are good sources of carbs

* when people get into and excited about a new diet regimen, they also often simultaneously increase their training. As I said above, a lot of the difference could be because you simply added more protein and added more training. No magic "low carb" effect

* as you stated, this thread is really about blood lipids, which you offer us nothing about. Kinda irrelevant to topic, but not entirely

* unless your eggs are pasteurized, eating them raw is a dumb idea. No need to risk salmonella

http://www.safeeggs.com/blog/food-safety-recalls/eating-raw-eggs-look-for-the-word-

“pasteurized”-on-your-egg-carton/

n > 1 wrote:

That's a good book. It is one of many books that takes apart the bad science and the house of cards that has been allowed to propagate into the mainstream. I'm a researcher myself and it's laughable sometimes what passes for science in the medical literature. Or at least it would be laughable if it weren't for all the people suffering ill health unnecessarily.

SWING.....and a MISS. (you're wrong)

Like I said, take it for what it is worth, and if that means nothing, fine.

Perhaps, I should have been more detailed... instead of "low carb", I should have specified it as low grain.

I didn't term my diet "paleo". But, my understanding is that "paleo" is big on fruits and veggies, correct? It was the old Atkins Diet that was against plant-based carbs, and carbs in general, correct?

My training hasn't changed. I train with a group that I coach, so no changes in period-dependent volume or intensities.

I understand your point about cutting "fat calories" instead of carbs. But, one interesting observation has been an increase in libido. This has not been a placebo effect. As a matter of fact, it has not been until the last month that I have read about increased free-testosterone levels from higher sat fat intake. And yes, my girlfriend has noticed. She actually brought it to my attention. i.e. increased libido, and larger 'loads'... this is not BS.

I appreciate the link for the eggs! It is something that I am going to look further into.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

SWING.....and a MISS. (you're wrong)

As compelling a presuppositional argument is I'm afraid I have to dismiss it on the grounds that it is no argument at all.

As compelling as*