So Oregon sucks at XC? Hmmm...They just produced the best two XC runners in the nation this year along with having the best guy in the NCAA last year.
When someone says a school sucks at XC and the school just produced 2 National individual titles in a row and the first 1-2 finish in 25 years and two 6th place team finishes in a row, I'm having a little bit of a hard time believing the poster knows anything at all about the sport.
Check out this stat for all the posters that don't think Oregon is any good at running. There seem to be quite a few on this site. Since 2008 XC, 2009 track, here are the men's Oregon individual NCAA Titles. Just for Cross Country and 800 meters and up in track.
Not listing track NCAA team titles or NCAA Indoor Relay titles, of which they also have some. Just individual wins.
CROSS COUNTRY (3 titles)
Galen Rupp 2008
Edward Cheserek 2013 and 2014
800 METERS (4 titles)
Andrew Wheating outdoor 2008 and outdoor 2009
Elijah Greer indoor 2013 and outdoor 2013
1500 METERS (3 titles)
Andrew Wheating outdoor 2009
Matthew Centrowitz outdoor 2011
Mac Fleet outdoor 2014
3000 METERS (INDOORS) (2 titles)
Galen Rupp 2009
Edward Cheserek 2014
5000 METERS (3 titles)
Galen Rupp indoor 2009, outdoor 2009
Edward Cheserek indoor 2014
10,000 METERS (2 titles)
Galen Rupp 2009
Edward Cheserek 2014
17 individual TITLES by 6 different individuals.
What school can come light years as close using the above criteria. If Oregon sucks at running then every school sucks even more at running.
I don't see how you can turn a simple fact - the Buffaloes won the NCAA XC Team Championship with a very workmanlike performance - into something to be held against them. Yes, they have great depth, but they also don't have a dominant front-runner. They have a bunch of guys who could be the #5 to #15 XC runner in the NCAA on a given day, which works out great for team XC. It doesn't mean they are underachievers just because none of them won individual titles.
And second, would you kindly agree to never use the term "King Ches" again? I hate that crap. Who came up with it? What kind of grown man sits around referring to some runner they don't even know as "King"? I mean, come on! He's just some guy who's good at jogging. What's wrong with calling him Robert? Seems like a perfectly decent name to me.
This is why people hate Oregon. Colorado won fair and square, but Oregon's fanboys have to stand on the table and start screaming about how good they are at track. Who cares right now?
Yes, Oregon has a much better track program than Colorado, but Colorado regularly cleans the floor with Oregon during xc. Just accept it and don't be a sore loser.
I'm far from a Ducks hater, please don't turn me into one.
Oregon went 1-2 and still only placed 6th at NCAAs, while Colorado's first two were 5 and 9 and they won the meet. I don't think anyone is claiming that Oregon is not good at running because thats a joke. Oregon has had the luxury of being able to easily attract the best high schoolers in the nation because of the history the Oregon has. Colorado is slowly starting to gain the same luxury. Oregon is able to win individual XC titles by having kids who are crazy talented, while Wetmore takes a group of kids with lesser talent and creates championship teams with hard work and dedication. Lets take a look back.
In 2004, Colorado was coming into the season losing their top 3 runners from the year before. Their two top returning runners going into the 2004 season were Brent Vaughn and Jared Scott, who went 110 and 142 at nationals in 2003 respectively. Colorado had no reason to be in contention for the national title in 2004 with the team that Wisconsin had. Brent Vaughn made the jump from 110 to 4th overall, and it wasn't because he woke up one day with King Ches talent. Bret Schoolmeester was Colorado's number two man in 2004 coming in 5th place, making the jump from 242 place in 2003. Oregon didn't even qualify for NCAAs in 2004. Then in 2006, Colorado took the crown again.
Now lets talk track. Oregon, unlike Colorado, spends a good portion of their scholarship money (which goes to both XC and track) on sprints, hurdles, throws, and jumps, and this is why they seem to "lack" in depth in the distance department. Oregon is more focused on winning track titles, while Colorado is focused on XC titles.
Why can't both factors exist? The Wetmore factor can be defined as taking a group of kids who don't necessarily have individual title talent and bringing them together to create a scary pack of black and gold at the front of races. The Powell factor can be defined as taking kids who have unlimited potential and creating individual champions while also molding them for a successful professional career. Both factors exist, but it's completely up to the person to decide which one they like better. If you're a kid who is above average and still wants a chance at a title, go with Wetmore. If you're a kid who is the best in the nation and is looking to win individual titles, go with Powell.
Wetmore has also created individual champions, but not like Powell has.
Why not both? wrote:
Wetmore has also created individual champions, but not like Powell has.
Powell coached Centro, Fleet, and Ches.
Wetmore has coached Goucher, Torres, Ritz, K Goucher, Simpson, Coburn, Kipp.
Wetmore factor? wrote:
colorado has only 2 national titles over the last year with so much depth? How can that be?
They have so much depth but not many titles.. just 2 for XC. no individual titles.
king ches alone has more, like 5 tiles in the same time frame. and that is just one person.
Ducks over the last year:
King ches = 5 (XC, indoor, outdoor)
devon allen hurdles
sam crouser javelin
Ducks mens team title outdoor
laura roesler 800 outdoor & indoor
mac fleet 1500
men team indoors
women indoors
phyliss francis 400
women indoor 4*400
that's like 15 titles... what is the wetmore factor? because these results appear to point to an Andy Powell factor...
Does any team have more titles than oregon over the last year? or couple years?
Vin Lananna factor. Andy Powell, VL, protege....
I think you need to read the majority of threads on this board to get the real taste of what goes on this board. The typical thread starts out with a title such as: "Oregon Sucks at XC"; "Oregon is a crappy school"; "Oregon underacheves again"....and so on. I find it understandable that Oregon fans would react defensively, with all the positives of their school and track team that they can throw at the wall. Unfortunately, there are a few prolific LR posters who have a hate for Oregon (probably out of jealousy), and look for any and every negative they can find (or dream up). None of this is helping the sport.
fact checker wrote:
Why not both? wrote:Wetmore has also created individual champions, but not like Powell has.
Powell coached Centro, Fleet, and Ches.
Wetmore has coached Goucher, Torres, Ritz, K Goucher, Simpson, Coburn, Kipp.
Overlooked on my part, thank you.
Stanfprd, Colorado, Wisconsin and the rest of the big boys recruit blue chippers too. Not just Oregon. Look at Colorado's top 3. Moussa, Theroux and Sarrel. Extreme high school studs. The argument that Oregon gets all the major talent and that other coaches develop the lesser guys is the biggest load of bullcrap I've ever heard. All the big programs get blue chippers every year. You take those 3 Colorado guys, put them on Whetmore's program and have them spend 24-7 at altitude and you better get an aerobic beast!
The argument that Powell gets all the talent and other coaches do a better job of coaching because they get inferior talent to run fast is not only bullcrap but insulting to the top guys on the other teams.
C'mon already wrote:
Stanfprd, Colorado, Wisconsin and the rest of the big boys recruit blue chippers too. Not just Oregon. Look at Colorado's top 3. Moussa, Theroux and Sarrel. Extreme high school studs. The argument that Oregon gets all the major talent and that other coaches develop the lesser guys is the biggest load of bullcrap I've ever heard. All the big programs get blue chippers every year. You take those 3 Colorado guys, put them on Whetmore's program and have them spend 24-7 at altitude and you better get an aerobic beast!
The argument that Powell gets all the talent and other coaches do a better job of coaching because they get inferior talent to run fast is not only bullcrap but insulting to the top guys on the other teams.
Don't get me wrong, Colorado, Stanford, and Wisconsin do get great talents and do great with them. Hell, Stanford just got Grant Fisher for next season, which is gonna be scary. I don't want to come off as insulting to any of the top teams. I would consider myself an Oregon fan, so I'm not trying to attack Powell and call him a bad coach either. What I'm trying to say is that not everyone gets Ches and Rupp talents like Oregon does.
You're correct. Not everyone gets guys like Rupp and Chez. But someone got Solinsky, Chelenga, Zeinasellasse, McDougal, Ritz, Derrick, Lalang, Kithuka, etc, etc. Those guys were A+ HS recruits already running very good college times in HS. Plus how many programs have gotten the absolute top HS talent and never developed them any further? Happens all the time.
My point is that all the best programs get some members of the HS elite every single year. If they don't, it's an extreme exception. In fact, many schools actually do better in the distance recruiting dept than Oregon because they aren't recruiting for an entire track team (like Colorado). That's a fact.
Importantly, this post isn't to take anything away from any of the accomplishments of the other fine programs. It's just in reply to charges that Oregon somehow has an advantage when it comes to HS distance recruits. Very untrue.
Give me a list of other "talents" like Rupp and Ches that Oregon has gotten. Fact is Stanford, Colorado, Oklahoma St and others normally beat out Oregon for many of the top blue chippers because Oregon cannot offer as many full rides to xc/distance guys because they use their limited schollies to stock their track and field team. So, as C'mon wrote, it is is a bunch of bullcrap to say that Powell gets all the talent for Oregon. Tell me again how heavily recruited were Melancon, Winn and Watson. These guys have always been blue-collar workhorses, trying to get whatever talent out of their bodies. It is insulting not only to top guys on other teams, but also to these workhorses.
C'mon already wrote:
You're correct. Not everyone gets guys like Rupp and Chez. But someone got Solinsky, Chelenga, Zeinasellasse, McDougal, Ritz, Derrick, Lalang, Kithuka, etc, etc. Those guys were A+ HS recruits already running very good college times in HS. Plus how many programs have gotten the absolute top HS talent and never developed them any further? Happens all the time.
My point is that all the best programs get some members of the HS elite every single year. If they don't, it's an extreme exception. In fact, many schools actually do better in the distance recruiting dept than Oregon because they aren't recruiting for an entire track team (like Colorado). That's a fact.
Importantly, this post isn't to take anything away from any of the accomplishments of the other fine programs. It's just in reply to charges that Oregon somehow has an advantage when it comes to HS distance recruits. Very untrue.
Very good points
Check out this stat for all the posters that don't think Oregon is any good at running. There seem to be quite a few on this site. Since 2008 XC, 2009 track, here are the men's Oregon individual NCAA Titles. Just for Cross Country and 800 meters and up in track.
Not listing track NCAA team titles or NCAA Indoor Relay titles, of which they also have some. Just individual wins.
CROSS COUNTRY (3 titles)
Galen Rupp 2008
Edward Cheserek 2013 and 2014
800 METERS (4 titles)
Andrew Wheating outdoor 2008 and outdoor 2009
Elijah Greer indoor 2013 and outdoor 2013
1500 METERS (3 titles)
Andrew Wheating outdoor 2009
Matthew Centrowitz outdoor 2011
Mac Fleet outdoor 2014
3000 METERS (INDOORS) (2 titles)
Galen Rupp 2009
Edward Cheserek 2014
5000 METERS (3 titles)
Galen Rupp indoor 2009, outdoor 2009
Edward Cheserek indoor 2014
10,000 METERS (2 titles)
Galen Rupp 2009
Edward Cheserek 2014
17 individual TITLES by 6 different individuals.
What school can come light years as close using the above criteria. If Oregon sucks at running then every school sucks even more at running.
Read more:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6132820&page=1#ixzz3JxUz8ppf
Holy Crap!!!!
Team titles are fun. Like all team sports you don't need to be the best and still feel like a winner. But the goal in this sport is to be the fastest runner on the day. That is the individual title.
It is harder to win the individual title than a team championship.
This thread is so stupid.
Hey "reader of other forums", so are you. Go back to the other forums and post your insightful comments there.
BYE BYE wrote:
Hey "reader of other forums", so are you. Go back to the other forums and post your insightful comments there.
What an odd thing to write.
Not A Runner Nerd wrote:
I think you need to read the majority of threads on this board to get the real taste of what goes on this board. The typical thread starts out with a title such as: "Oregon Sucks at XC"; "Oregon is a crappy school"; "Oregon underacheves again"....and so on. I find it understandable that Oregon fans would react defensively, with all the positives of their school and track team that they can throw at the wall. Unfortunately, there are a few prolific LR posters who have a hate for Oregon (probably out of jealousy), and look for any and every negative they can find (or dream up). None of this is helping the sport.
React defensively? There is nothing DEFENSIVE about this thread - see the title. It is offensive. It seems as if some Oregon fans can't handle that Colorado is getting well deserved praise.
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
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