Tokyo Olympics - October 18, 1964 - 5000 meters

Mobot hahaha wrote:

Are you saying Bob Schull could have beat Mo Farah. That is a joke.

Competing under condtions of the 1960s, ie having to do a full time job, similar tracks and spikes, reduced range of PEDs and nutritional supplements available, Bob Schul would have been superior to Farah in a 5k race. Who knows how fast an athlete of Schul's calibre would be running in today's era? For whatever reason, Schul is one of America's most underrated distance runners.

SI Vault:

http://www.si.com/vault/1964/10/26/606890/we-win-the-five-and-ten

MiamiOhio75 wrote:

Bill Dellinger of the US caught a tiring Michel Jazy at the finish to take the bronze medal.

... one the greatest 5000 fields in Olympic history

No. Just no.

modern society wrote:

Ethnicity > merits.

Good point, but not in the way you mean it. See Nike sponsorship of Ritz [cough] vs Meb [cough cough].

rupp-certifiid saladbar wrote:

MiamiOhio75 wrote:

Bill Dellinger of the US caught a tiring Michel Jazy at the finish to take the bronze medal.

... one the greatest 5000 fields in Olympic history

No. Just no.

Oh, come on, that was an absolutely stud-laden field. Schul, Norpoth, Dellinger, Jazy, Keino, Baillie, and Clarke--plus Halberg and Kidd didn't advance from the heats, and Gammoudi missed the final. Lots of WRs and OG medals in *that* group.

If your assessment of "greatness" (in an Olympic field) is based on anything other than how the athletes fared against the best competition available in their day, you're all wet.

rupp-certifiid saladbar wrote:

MiamiOhio75 wrote:

Bill Dellinger of the US caught a tiring Michel Jazy at the finish to take the bronze medal.

... one the greatest 5000 fields in Olympic history

No. Just no.

It doesn't matter if it was the greatest field in history, in 1964 it was the greatest field in the world at the championship level ever. Only Gammoudi was missing but that wouldn't have mattered.

No American before or since at the world class level has ever reached the status in an Olympic year in comparison to the world's best runners and got the job done in the Olympics like Bob Schul in 1964.

There was no single runner in the world that was going to beat Schul in the Olympics that year in that event. Similar to Said Aouita in 1984 and Nyangabo in 1996.

No American has ever come close to reaching that status as a world-beater in the distance races.

He broke the world record in the 2 mile, was 3 seconds from the world record in the 5000, and had the best finishing speed among any contender in the 5000 at the Olympics.

No American before or since has ever reached that level.

Not Prefontaine, Liquori, Padilla, Maree, Kennedy, or anyone else.

Its always bothered me why he never has been recognized as the best American runner.

NU wrote:

quote]

You're right. He's been overlooked way too often. And the lack of movie about his life is a national disgrace.

A movie about him would be great! And let's get Maris in the HOF too. Seriously.[/quote]

I was thinking the other day of what a great movie subject the 1964 Olympics could be focusing on the 5000 and 10,000. There was one made called "64" focusing on Maris and Mantle.

Imagine a movie with a budget focusing on the stories of Billy Mills and Bob Schul in Tokyo leading up to their finals.

George Atlas wrote:

NU wrote:

quote]

You're right. He's been overlooked way too often. And the lack of movie about his life is a national disgrace.

A movie about him would be great! And let's get Maris in the HOF too. Seriously.

I was thinking the other day of what a great movie subject the 1964 Olympics could be focusing on the 5000 and 10,000. There was one made called "64" focusing on Maris and Mantle.

Imagine a movie with a budget focusing on the stories of Billy Mills and Bob Schul in Tokyo leading up to their finals.[/quote]

Schul does not have a life story as inspiring as Mills. Good guy, good story, but not movie worthy. You gotta know how movies work.

vivalarepublica wrote:

George Atlas wrote:

A movie about him would be great! And let's get Maris in the HOF too. Seriously.

I was thinking the other day of what a great movie subject the 1964 Olympics could be focusing on the 5000 and 10,000. There was one made called "64" focusing on Maris and Mantle.

Imagine a movie with a budget focusing on the stories of Billy Mills and Bob Schul in Tokyo leading up to their finals.

Schul does not have a life story as inspiring as Mills. Good guy, good story, but not movie worthy. You gotta know how movies work.[/quote]

Sadly, true. Whether autobiographical films get made - or watched - is not at all a function of how great the subject is. It is a function of how great the story is. And, sometimes, not even that is sufficient. Kip Keino has both a great story and athletic accomplishments that eclipse Schul's. As far as I know, no movie of Keino's life has ever been made or, even, contemplated.

The only angle that most of these stories might have that could sell them to Hollwood execs is the inspiring rise from obscurity to excellence. Unfortunately, that's been done and done to death and done extremely well (Rocky....).

We should all be satisfied knowing these stories, re-telling these stories and using these stories to inspire us on our own journeys. We don't need mainstream culture to justify our passion. Quite the contrary. Quite the contrary.

I listened to Schul speak last night. People that have heard him before mistake him as arrogant, but they miss the point.

He is one of the most knowledgeable individuals I have ever met that has an understanding of the mental approach that is crucial to winning.

He is blunt and honest but not at all arrogant. That would be a great subject matter. The psychology that winners focus on.

He spoke about the race where he was running a 2 mile in a tiny meet in California where he was ready to break Michel Jazy's World Record in the 2 mile. Before the Tokyo Games. He informed the officials "I'm going to break the World Record" before the race. Instead of saying "I'm going to try to break the World Record".

But he also gave great detail of the day he won the Gold. From the time he left the Olympic Village, taking a bus to the track, then having to wait in a locker room sitting on a bench with all the finalists waiting to get clearance to hit the track for maybe one 40 meter stride before the start.

I've heard similar accounts when Coe and Ovett were in that situation in 1980. Schul remarked sitting on that bench he looked over to the right an Michel Jazy at the same time looked to the left and they met eyes and both quickly looked away.

Details like that make great film moments.

I was there running the video for Bob. I am the head coach from his old HS. I get to sit and talk to Bob all the time. His running resume is unreal. His workouts were unreal. He is an unreal person. He sits at our CC meets signing tshirt and ribbons for HS kids all day.

modern society wrote:

Area Man wrote:

I agree. Whenever there's a discussion of greatest American distance runners somehow Billy Mills makes the top 5 and Bob Schul doesn't even get mentioned.

Ethnicity > merits.

Okay, first off Billy Mills himself is NOT responsible. 2nd of all Mills ran a personal best by almost a minute and set the--get this now--Olympic record! Wait, it gets even better. He was an utter underdog AND passed two favorites in the final meters of the race in a stunning way. He also set a world record at 6 miles.

Schul was amazing and the irony is the two great US golds at distance were in the same Olympics. I think the Mills story is a better story, but by meters, not by miles.