Ryan hall new coach!!!

wtf.................... wrote:

Ana Theist wrote:

Daniels was not her primary coach--not by any means--but Joan Benoit gives him much credit for her success in the 1984 OT.

Joan Benoit credits Bob Sevene for advising her.

Each of these statements is true.

Jack Daniels is a good HS coach. Don't get me wrong, many of his concepts have helped develop American HS students to become great middle distance and even 5000m runners.

But his track record (SCNR) for the Marathon are less than mediocre.

E.g. he does not believe in long tempo runs, likes to break them up into "rolling tempos" with 1-2min breaks. Guess what, you're not going to take 1-2min breaks during the Marathon RACE.

Jack Daniels seems like a good fit. He's very no-nonsense, seems easier to get along with than T-Mahon, but I wonder if Daniels is a little old school compared to other coaches..

He has the talent, he needs a basic, old school, simple coach like Daniels. Think about it. As long as he doesn't over think things and is healthy he'll put up a good time.

cyhawk wrote:

Does anyone know why the Canova thing fell apart so quickly? Is there any reason to think this will turn out better? Has Jack Daniels coached many elite marathoners?

Daniels coached Magdalena Lewy Boulet to the 2008 Olympic team. She ended with a 2:26 so Daniels knows a thing or 2 about coaching pros.

JD also coach Janet Cherobon-Bowcom to the last Olympics (12th place in the 10,000), and she's got the American record in the 25k and was 5th at the 2012 OT Marathon trials.

JD believes in doing the minimum amount of work you can, and is personally invested in a simplistic and somewhat antiquated model. (Read:

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2012/06/physiological-model-of-training-why-it.html

)

All that being said, JD can probably train Ryan to 90% of his potential, and if Ryan is healthy and 90% of his potential, who else in America is going to be a head of him at the OT trials (you can name a couple, but can you name 3)? Ryan won't win a major, or make a big splash in 2016, but he'll make the team and continue America's pattern of mediocrity in word marathon. Unfortunately, that's an improvement.

In my opinion, Sarah Hall, has a greater chance of getting on the podium of a major marathon or Olympic marathon than Ryan.

Jack Daniels just needs to break Hall out of his seemingly perpetual injury cycle. I always thought that Hall should follow Meb to work with Vigil and Larsen. Meb has had some pretty bad injuries and missed more than his fair share of big races as a result. But, Larsen has managed to get Meb back into shape each time and ready for a world beating performance. Hall has just not been able to get out of his injury cycle since the 2012 trials. Daniels may be able to help as he is very connected with the medical side of the sport.

It is fair to note that Daniels has not coached any of the top international marathon runners. But Terrence Mahon's resume was pretty light when he started working with Hall.

cyhawk wrote:

Does anyone know why the Canova thing fell apart so quickly? Is there any reason to think this will turn out better? Has Jack Daniels coached many elite marathoners?

Jerry Lawson.

Doesn't Daniels coach at Wells College in NY?

So I assume Ryan won't be moving there to train. Daniels won't be observing workouts like most seem to suggest.

The other guy! wrote:

Jack Daniels is a good HS coach. Don't get me wrong, many of his concepts have helped develop American HS students to become great middle distance and even 5000m runners.

But his track record (SCNR) for the Marathon are less than mediocre.

E.g. he does not believe in long tempo runs, likes to break them up into "rolling tempos" with 1-2min breaks. Guess what, you're not going to take 1-2min breaks during the Marathon RACE.

Ever heard of intervals?

Breathe in breathe out wrote:

The other guy! wrote:

Jack Daniels is a good HS coach. Don't get me wrong, many of his concepts have helped develop American HS students to become great middle distance and even 5000m runners.

But his track record (SCNR) for the Marathon are less than mediocre.

E.g. he does not believe in long tempo runs, likes to break them up into "rolling tempos" with 1-2min breaks. Guess what, you're not going to take 1-2min breaks during the Marathon RACE.

Ever heard of intervals?

Intervals are highly overrated for Marathon training.

Larson was a bystander watching and assisting coach Vigils workouts at Mammoth. Larson structure is basically what he adapted from Vigil. When Vigil left Larson took over 100% , tweaked workouts to get the best out Meb. Larson has done a great job. Meb's smarts to stay with a coaching philosophy , a coach who knows his body , mentality show through , even in tough times.

Hall has had none of this over the self coached years , jumping in and out of coaches as he see's fit. Im not sure he has the common sense to to stick with a program and believe in the program which will take at least a full year cycle of training to be effective. At this point in Hall's career Daniels is not a bad choice , bringing stability vs impulse may go a long way to centering Halls quest to be great once again.

Good luck to JD...it's hard to share coaching duties with Jesus.

cyhawk wrote:

Does anyone know why the Canova thing fell apart so quickly? Is there any reason to think this will turn out better? Has Jack Daniels coached many elite marathoners?

Lisa Martin Ondieki.

Jack has been advising Ryan Hall for many years, so they have quite a bit of experience with each other. I think this is a great fit.

Cant-stand-ya wrote:

The other guy! wrote:

E.g. he does not believe in long tempo runs, likes to break them up into "rolling tempos" with 1-2min breaks. Guess what, you're not going to take 1-2min breaks during the Marathon RACE.

I take it you wouldn't do 400m repeats with rest (GASP) training for the mile either? Idiot.

didnt mutai's supposed training have a lot of possibly nontraditional tempo/interval stuff ex 12x1000 w/ 1min rest. its possible im remembering at least one of those things wrong

even if im wrong here, different things work for different people. its possible this is a good fit. i hope it is

It's not an either or proposition.

While the goal event dictates primary training focus, totally excluding - or "leaving them behind" to paraphrase Canova - potentially important training elements isn't wise.

1 min on, 1 min off....the bread and butter Kenyan fartlek.Keitany did 1 min on and 1 min off X 25.They typically do not run for distance, just time.

Powerball wrote:

Cant-stand-ya wrote:

I take it you wouldn't do 400m repeats with rest (GASP) training for the mile either? Idiot.

didnt mutai's supposed training have a lot of possibly nontraditional tempo/interval stuff ex 12x1000 w/ 1min rest. its possible im remembering at least one of those things wrong

even if im wrong here, different things work for different people. its possible this is a good fit. i hope it is