Jagerrrrr 8.04.71 - New Steeplechase American Record!!!

mar828 wrote:

Ha, I see what I did there

It was kind of close, he was running on the sidewalk, pretty fast obvs, and I was coming out of a parking garage

I almost took out Uta Pippig in a similar manner @ 25 years ago.

kiowavt wrote:

[quote]explain to me wrote:

Rono's time is slow for a Kenyan now, but still fast for the rest of the world. And super fast for Americans. I agree with the OP. It's a great achievement despite the time since. How many Americans have done it? Ummmm, super few. I'll let you look it up.

Rono's time isn't slow even by todays standards. In fact, there is no one running the event today who could duplicate Rono rain drenched 8:05

John ODonnell wrote:

I am within days of the age of Henry Marsh, former AR holder at around 8:10. I hope the youngsters will forgive some of us, but for our generation, Henry Rono's 8:05 AR, set at the PAC 8 meet in 1978, is very significant. Sonme of the younger set might not know Rono set the WR at the 3,000, steeple, 5,000, and 10,000 that year.

!

Rono's WR wasn't at the PAC 8, it was in a dual meet in Seattle. It was pouring down rain in front of 500 brave souls in ponchos and umbrellas. He finished a half lap ahead of the nearest competitor.

And you missed that David Rudisha won olympic gold and broke the world record in the 800 by being a complete boss and not drafting.

But how fast would he have run that day if he had someone to draft off of?

If you're going to win races or set records, it'll often be undrafted up front for small to large portions. Ask El G, Rushida, Benoit, Ritz, Hall... Drafting as a primary means to race often means you'll still be drafting at the finish line.

How hard is it to beat someone's :51 last lap, by coming from behind & around the curves? How about the congestion & falling while drafting?

ttc wrote:

stupid liberal hippies wrote:

And you missed that David Rudisha won olympic gold and broke the world record in the 800 by being a complete boss and not drafting.

But how fast would he have run that day if he had someone to draft off of?

If you're going to win races or set records, it'll often be undrafted up front for small to large portions. Ask El G, Rushida, Benoit, Ritz, Hall... Drafting as a primary means to race often means you'll still be drafting at the finish line.

How hard is it to beat someone's :51 last lap, by coming from behind & around the curves? How about the congestion & falling while drafting?

^^^ we can't reason with this kid. He was never fast enough to make it to a championship final and thus will never understand

stupid liberal hippies wrote:

ttc wrote:

If you're going to win races or set records, it'll often be undrafted up front for small to large portions. Ask El G, Rushida, Benoit, Ritz, Hall... Drafting as a primary means to race often means you'll still be drafting at the finish line.

How hard is it to beat someone's :51 last lap, by coming from behind & around the curves? How about the congestion & falling while drafting?

^^^ we can't reason with this kid. He was never fast enough to make it to a championship final and thus will never understand

______________________________

Simpson, El G, Rushida, Ritz, Hall, Benoit, Cabral understand & execute.

ttc wrote:

Sometimes it's good to draft. Sometimes drafting on purpose is terrible.

- Jager spent a good portion that race not drafting, & demolished his AR.

- J.Simpson ignored drafting many of her races, & won the DL.

- El G won 1500M Gold by leading much of his race.

- El G won 5K Gold, because those faster purposely drafted.

- Joan Benoit raced arguably (& I said arguably, not 100%) the best US distance performance ever- by ignoring drafting.

- Ritz made the 2012 Olympic 10K team, by ignoring drafting.

- Ryan Hall's best races ignored drafting.

- D.Cabral led most of his 2012 Olympic semi & final, to advance & then majorly overachieve to 8th in the final, only 2 spots behind Jager. Oh let me guess: Everyone expected Cabral to be top 8. Sure.

I'll just comment on the races I am familiar with.

J. Simpson used a variety of tactics this year including taking it hard early and also sit and kick.

Do you mean like the 1500 championship race where El G had a personal pace maker who allowed El G to draft off of him for about 1,000m?

Finally, Ritz made the 2012 Olympic 10,000m team because Galen Rupp helped pace and share the leading duties with Ritz to ensure he got the A standard.

And then there was the front-runnning Julia Lucas in 2012.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

why do Americans only run fast times in the distances in Euro races?

They don't. Ask Duane Solomon and Galen Rupp. And Ben True and Hassan Mead.

Why don't they just time trial with weak fields back home?

Either

1) they do, or

2) Because once they are in peak form, their sponsors want them in Europe so they will be on TV and maybe even win some money. How are they going to do either of those things in America?

malmo wrote:

kiowavt wrote:

[quote]explain to me wrote:

Rono's time is slow for a Kenyan now, but still fast for the rest of the world. And super fast for Americans. I agree with the OP. It's a great achievement despite the time since. How many Americans have done it? Ummmm, super few. I'll let you look it up.

Rono's time isn't slow even by todays standards. In fact, there is no one running the event today who could duplicate Rono rain drenched 8:05

right, solo, rain, hangover, probably at an odd pace, was he all out?

rono was untouchable and would be the best now no doubt. without PEDs, oxygen tents and xenon etc.

ttc wrote:

stupid liberal hippies wrote:

^^^ we can't reason with this kid. He was never fast enough to make it to a championship final and thus will never understand

______________________________

Simpson, El G, Rushida, Ritz, Hall, Benoit, Cabral understand & execute.

You forget that given the opportunity they would all like to have a rabbit to draft from and have an even pace to follow. Rudisha himself requests the rabbits he likes. El G had a several rabbits in his world record performances. Just look at Rupp's American records. Set with rabbits. They do understand that rabbits can help them to faster times and they execute during their races to win. Just because you can find some outlying data doesn't mean you're correct. Statistics (and also physics) supports the idea that having someone to draft from will lead to faster times.

Leticia will take one.

If Jager wasnt so dreamy, we would be accusing him of drugs. Along with his 30 year old teammate who just beat a bunch of Kenyans.

Jager is now #23 on the all time list, just ahead of Vroemen. Birech just became #10

malmo wrote:

Rono's time isn't slow even by todays standards. In fact, there is no one running the event today who could duplicate Rono rain drenched 8:05

Rono was great in races against college kids. Against the big boys, not so much. Despite breaking the 3000m WR, Ovett handled him with ease at 2 miles.

bronislaw wrote:

Rono was great in races against college kids. Against the big boys, not so much. Despite breaking the 3000m WR, Ovett handled him with ease at 2 miles.

Clearly a youngster. You should learn your history before you speak. Rono raced and beat all the top runners in the world. Ovett was the only one to beat him, and only because it was the end of a long season.

Henry Rono set 5 WRs, 3000 (8:32), steeplechase (8:05), 5000(twice: 13:08, 13:06), and 10000 (27:22). His world rankings were

steeplechase

(1) 1978

(2) 1979

5000

(1) 1978

(7) 1979

(2) 1981

(6) 1982

10000

(8) 1977

(1) 1978

(3) 1980

(10) 1981

(6) 1982

I think that says more about Ovett than Rono, plus Henry was tired from a long. long season. Rono was one of the all-time great talents, too bad about all the "distractions."

I always wished Ovett would have had more opportunities to run a 5k. I think 3-5k could have really been his sweet spot.

Byberry Pie wrote:

Clearly a youngster. You should learn your history before you speak. Rono raced and beat all the top runners in the world. Ovett was the only one to beat him, and only because it was the end of a long season.

I'm old enough to know that Malinowski also beat Rono head-to-head in 78.