I ran a sprint workout with a detrained 10.9 guy: humble pie was hard to swallow

I wonder what he'd think about my Saturday workout:

3X60+90+2X150

I was still standing, didn't throw up, went home to make Gazpacho from scratch...but the rest was common sense since I really am a sprinter (15 minutes and longer).

Runnerdnerd is one of the most arrogant know-nothings on this board, and the posting here is an example of that. Calling 5 minute rest for speed endurance "very long" is totally incorrect and it immediately identifies the person as a wannabe. Sprinters know better than that.

I have an old copy of the USATF Coaching Manual (so old that it says TAC) which lists the recovery for 80-150 as 6-10 minutes. I can cite a presentation that Dennis Shaver (LSU) gave about 10 years ago which says the same. I can cite written materials that accompany two of Charlie Francis' lectures, which lists speed endurance training as 80-150 meters, up to 4 sprints, with recovery of 7-20 minutes.

When you label 5 minutes recovery for 100m @95% or greater as "very long"--and you do it with a straight face--it immediately identifies you as someone who doesn't have a clue. A real sprinter is likely to be running these at intensive tempo pace (80-90%), because he would know better than to go over 95 percent

The lab measured recovery time for CPK is 3 minutes for partial recovery, with full recovery being 7-8 minutes in lab research subjects and 20 minutes or more in elite athletes.

Locatelli measured the lactate levels from a single sprint (these were for roughly 10.0/20.0 level people) as:

100 meters 14.9 mmol/l

200 meters 20 mmol/l

For elite level 400 meter athletes, the lactate level increases fo 20 minutes AFTER the race is over.

These are the technical reason why the standard recovery periods in coaching manuals are like this:

20-40 meter starts....3-4 minutes

speed/speed endurance (40-150m)....1 minute rest per 10 meters sprinted

special endurance I (150-300)....15-30 minutes

extensive tempo (70-80% speed)....30 sec to 3 mimutes

intensive tempo (80-90% speed)....3-5 minutes

You are correct. After blowing me out of the water on the first rep, he was very eager to do the next few 50s with minimal walk back recoveries, and I was letting him call the starts.

I would have never been able to stay with him on those 100s had he been fresh.

Excellent post, coach d.

A very easy rule-of-thumb... 1 min. per 10m of high intensity work.

I can guarantee that the 5th and 6th rep of 50m at 5min rest, is going to be felt... and to follow that with 100's at high intensities.......... OUCH!

speedmachine 1.0 wrote:

800m Runner wrote:

Ya it is always funny hearing you longer distance runners saying that you are a speed guy when you run a 55+ 400m. You got no idea what you are talking about.

It's always funny when a guy who runs 49-50 calls themselves a sprinter but would be destroyed by a mid-d guy and would struggle to beat Mo Farah or Bekele over 400m

I ran 46.6 and 1:47 in college and 20 years later, I can still out-sprint guys over 1 lap (and less) who never stopped running while I didn't do much for the first 10 years out of school, and these days run 5 - 7 miles/day with 1 or 2 days a week of 4 x 400 and 6 x 200 at varied speeds. Of course the grinders can kill me at 1500 and above, but either you have speed or you don't. It's nothing to brag about, as I wish I had the endurance/strength some of these guys have naturally. No, don't compete in masters events, don't really have the desire. Just like to run hard a few days a week.

Skip to 2:05 and watch to the end. His dad talks about watching usain train and how he would puke. And then there's video of him puking. He clearly sticks his fingers in his mouth but that was probably to help what was coming out, come out faster. So yeah sprinters puke

Sprintgeezer never worked hard enough to puke.

d: "A real sprinter is likely to be running these at intensive tempo pace (80-90%), because he would know better than to go over 95 percent"

Exactly.

However, the alleged person is a "detrained" sprinter. When you "detrain", you lose capacity. After the first or 2nd 50, if somebody went that hard, they would be cooked, if they'd had no rest. I know, I have done it. On the following ones one just isn't able to go that "hard", because one has depleted the energy reserves, and then one is relying on a different energy system, one "designed" for that kind of work, one that enables that kind of work.

For me, it's not that I've never trained "hard" enough to puke, it's that I've never trained "stupid" enough to puke. If you are, you're an idiot and training wrong. Before short sprint stuff, I have always had a good meal, solid. NEVER when doing short-to-medium work should you puke, EVER, or you're an idiot and working the wrong energy system.

And when doing longer stuff (200-400) sure you can puke, but I never did these workouts with any food freshly in my gut, except for maybe some baking soda and water.

In any case, this alleged guy is reported as being an ex-sprinter. Sorry, but no sprinter I have ever known, and I have known lots, would puke in this type of situation without stomach flu or food poisoning--or if he or she had had a few drinks prior to doing this type of bogus workout-with-a-friend, not a real workout. I still don't buy it.

Like d said, no "sprinter" would do these at 95%. Believe me, if this person is real and actually was a 10.9 guy, he would blow your doors off going at 60-75%. I'm not kidding.

And why do I care so much? Well, because it's sprinting, of course!

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Like d said, no "sprinter" would do these at 95%. Believe me, if this person is real and actually was a 10.9 guy, he would blow your doors off going at 60-75%. I'm not kidding.

You're not kidding, you're just dumb. Distance runners aren't good sprinters but a 20 second 100m sprint isn't going to blow their doors off.