I don't know about these guys, but for me lying down after crossing the finish line is one if the few things that prevent me throwing up.
I usually walk into the infield/lawn though
I don't know about these guys, but for me lying down after crossing the finish line is one if the few things that prevent me throwing up.
I usually walk into the infield/lawn though
Flagpole wrote:
Star wrote:Look at this guy flopping after he won the Chicago marathon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWheGgqmq0AI sure hope you don't think that's the same thing.
How are we supposed to know if you won't give us an example of what you are talking about.
You wrote "hit the ground immediately after winning while all the losers in the race did not."
That's exactly the marathoner (Cheruiyot) did in that video.
Noperz wrote:
George Atlas wrote:The only people that win races and flop have some extra need for attention.
Recalling Ritz who used to do that all time. Roll around in agony like he was so tough he drove himself so hard he nearly died.
Nobody has every won a distance race where they didn't hurt.
That's absurd. Most distance races are won by someone who was much better than the competition on that day and did not have to hurt at all to get the win. Even when the competition is relatively even there are many, many tactical races where none of the top finishers hurt - one was just faster at the end than the others but none of them pushed themselves through any pain barriers.
Yes the winner of most races is the one that feels the easiest and hurts the least, but there is some discomfort at some point everyone goes through. Even if its only sprinting the last 200 meters. That's not easy.
And the winners that flop around on the ground are drama queens.
And those winners that roll around on the ground are drama queens.
George Atlas wrote:
Most distance races are won by someone who was much better than the competition on that day and did not have to hurt at all to get the win. Even when the competition is relatively even there are many, many tactical races where none of the top finishers hurt - one was just faster at the end than the others but none of them pushed themselves through any pain barriers.
Yes the winner of most races is the one that feels the easiest and hurts the least, but there is some discomfort at some point everyone goes through. Even if its only sprinting the last 200 meters. That's not easy.
And the winners that flop around on the ground are drama queens.
And those winners that roll around on the ground are drama queens.[/quote]
CORRECT! My best high school race ever was a cross country race where I felt no pain or discomfort. I just literally could not get my body to go any faster. Oh, and I won by the way...by a lot too.
Flagpole wrote:
a runner we all know...hit the ground immediately after winning while all the losers in the race did not.
What that tells the other runners is:
"I won because I ran harder than you...I put more effort into this race than you did."
When, in reality, most of them probably worked just as hard as he did, and some maybe even harder (as he won comfortably and cruised the last several meters while others were duking it out for place).
He gets credit for the training of course and for winning, but we can't discount genetics in giving some a leg up. When you flop on the ground like that and writhe in agony, it's a big arrogant slap to the face to all those who just lost to you.
Curious what the Letsrun crowd thinks.
Speaking for the "letsun crowd", we, as usual, think you have too much time on your hands and are wrong.
In bullet points, that only you can appreciate-
* yes, if, *IF* a runner appears to take a dive, after crossing the line, whether or not he won or not , it's lame. Doing it after winning or coming in 5th makes no difference
* the collapse, if done on purpose, is not "a big arrogant slap to the face" of anyone. Maybe it's meant to seek some more attention, but I don't think it's "arrogant." It is actually showing weakness in some form. Doing pushups before the line (like Mr PED user once did), or hurdling the finishing tape, or any other show of "this didn't even tire" me, the OPPOSITE of the "dive", is what would be an "arrogant slap" to other runners
* MOST IMPORTANTLY, how on earth you can tell if a runner fell on purpose or not is beyond me, you can't. I collapsed at the line in 2 races in my life. Both I won. One was 1000y in HS, one was 800m in my early 30's. IN both instances I was way back with 300 to go and had to make a huge move late to win, it apparently took a lot out of me, and probably the only thing that kept me going was the good feeling of seeing that I was winning. But each time, I felt my legs turning to mush the last 10 meters, barely made the line, and crumbled just beyond the line. Hit the track pretty hard too. I'd have have much rather blasted through feeling fresh. Didn't happen.
Understand now, Flaggy?
Flagpole wrote:
George Atlas wrote:Most distance races are won by someone who was much better than the competition on that day and did not have to hurt at all to get the win. Even when the competition is relatively even there are many, many tactical races where none of the top finishers hurt - one was just faster at the end than the others but none of them pushed themselves through any pain barriers.
Yes the winner of most races is the one that feels the easiest and hurts the least, but there is some discomfort at some point everyone goes through. Even if its only sprinting the last 200 meters. That's not easy.
And the winners that flop around on the ground are drama queens.
And those winners that roll around on the ground are drama queens.
CORRECT! My best high school race ever was a cross country race where I felt no pain or discomfort. I just literally could not get my body to go any faster. Oh, and I won by the way...by a lot too.[/quote]
So you were going at your best sprint pace?
The truth is you could have gone faster but didn't want to hurt for no good reason.
George Atlas wrote:
Noperz wrote:That's absurd. Most distance races are won by someone who was much better than the competition on that day and did not have to hurt at all to get the win. Even when the competition is relatively even there are many, many tactical races where none of the top finishers hurt - one was just faster at the end than the others but none of them pushed themselves through any pain barriers.
Yes the winner of most races is the one that feels the easiest and hurts the least, but there is some discomfort at some point everyone goes through. Even if its only sprinting the last 200 meters. That's not easy.
And the winners that flop around on the ground are drama queens.
And those winners that roll around on the ground are drama queens.
I:
strongly disagree
disagree
not sure
agree
* strongly agree *
with your bolded statements.
I think that I am better than you.
Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:
Speaking for the "letsun crowd", we, as usual, think you have too much time on your hands and are wrong.
In bullet points, that only you can appreciate-
* yes, if, *IF* a runner appears to take a dive, after crossing the line, whether or not he won or not , it's lame. Doing it after winning or coming in 5th makes no difference
* the collapse, if done on purpose, is not "a big arrogant slap to the face" of anyone. Maybe it's meant to seek some more attention, but I don't think it's "arrogant." It is actually showing weakness in some form. Doing pushups before the line (like Mr PED user once did), or hurdling the finishing tape, or any other show of "this didn't even tire" me, the OPPOSITE of the "dive", is what would be an "arrogant slap" to other runners
* MOST IMPORTANTLY, how on earth you can tell if a runner fell on purpose or not is beyond me, you can't. I collapsed at the line in 2 races in my life. Both I won. One was 1000y in HS, one was 800m in my early 30's. IN both instances I was way back with 300 to go and had to make a huge move late to win, it apparently took a lot out of me, and probably the only thing that kept me going was the good feeling of seeing that I was winning. But each time, I felt my legs turning to mush the last 10 meters, barely made the line, and crumbled just beyond the line. Hit the track pretty hard too. I'd have have much rather blasted through feeling fresh. Didn't happen.
1) It's August and half my clients are "on Holiday" as they say across the pond, so currently, I DO have more time on my hands.
2) I agree with you that a dive (again, unless in very rare circumstances) is lame no matter the place. The only difference is what it is intended to tell all the losers when the winner does it. Makes it a little extra lame.
3) You are wrong about it not being an arrogant slap to the face. Contrary to what you say, it is doing the exact OPPOSITE of showing weakness. What it says is, "Not only do I have the GUTS and ability to push myself to a limit further than you do, but I just did it, and to prove so, I will now collapse and writhe on the ground. Oh, and by the way, I timed my race SO PERFECTLY that I was able to make it to the line at full speed and just at that moment lose all control so that I collapsed to the ground and had to writhe in agony. No WAY you losers know how to do that. Man I am so much more of a beast than any of you." What you suggest (doing pushups, etc.) would ALSO be an arrogant slap to the face, but it isn't an either or...BOTH things do that. Just takes a little more insight to see that writhing on the ground is in fact sticking it to those who didn't win.
4) I think some runners convince themselves that it's OK to collapse at the finish when really, it isn't in just about all cases. There's a difference between not feeling fresh and needing to collapse and writhe on the ground in agony.
AFRotc wrote:
HS runners are still at the age where they are dramatic and crave attention. Many times have I seen a teenage girl collapse at the finish making it seem as if she was the only one to run sooooo far!
Five minutes later she is on her iphone, yapping and going on about....her!
Teenage boys can be just as bad. Many make it seem as if they just cured cancer with their fist pumps and collapsing at the finish during relays. They actually should be dq'd for blocking progress for other runners.
Advice:
Run your race. Get off the track.
Done.
Ok. I do not disagree with any of this. It's Histrionics pure and simple (as you described). I would submit to you that there are certain high school kids (and GREAT runners who try as hard as they can) who do NOT like extra attention and would never in a million years flop and writhe on the ground no matter how good they ever became which proves this is a personality thing and NOT a physical thing.
Were you talking about Jennifer Lawrence winning and falling?
Captain Obliviousness wrote:
The truth is you could have gone faster but didn't want to hurt for no good reason.
Pain and discomfort aren't the only things that limit the speed of a runner. You could sprint for 60 meters for example and not feel one bit of PAIN, but that doesn't mean you should have unlimited speed; many physiological things limit that. Same is true for distance running.
By the way, there are people in this world who have a disorder where they feel absolutely ZERO pain...can put their face on a burner on the stove and feel nothing. Why aren't these people the best distance runners on the planet? Pain is not the limiting factor in distance running, that's why.
Noperz wrote:
I:
strongly disagree
disagree
not sure
agree
* strongly agree *
with your bolded statements.
That makes you CORRECT!
I have an issue with this kind of logic. Is the winner supposed to be a star-glistening radiant specimen of perfection that wins gloriously? Sport means leaving it on the field. This can transcend running and XC and/or include it. Let's look at this:1> At the end of races, the winner usually has a kick that cinches the race. This sprint can take a lot out of that person. It may be all they had left( even as they APPEARED to be cruising). And they put it into completing the goal of the win, rather than caring about vanity.2> Football: Kellen Winslow had to be helped off the field at the end of the 1981 SD/Miami playoff game because he had exhausted his last wind in his efforts in actively helping the Chargers win that playoff.furthermore, let's take this farther: cheerleaders, dancers, gymnasts, major sports, minor sports, etc put effort into everything...and people sweat..and people get exhausted and people still put that spirit in and give everything they have and the main thing that people have to comment about is their appearance in doing so?????What you should be teaching your son is to grit out that last effort and to put every raw bit of passion and emotion in what he does as a testimony to his full and honest endeavor. If that means flopping to the ground, so be it. If that means crying, so be it. If that means kissing the ground, so be it. In addition, you should not teach him to stand there (or sit there) and regard the winner as anything other than the person he strives to beat the next race.The rest, really, is just petty.Let it go. Let the winner have his moment--it's not yours.Sincerely,MikeP.S. I have the utmost respect for Kenenisa Bekele, but let Americans be their American way. Bekele is Bekele. Non-Bekele is Non-Bekele. Thanks.
Flagpole wrote:
Fortunately my HS distance-running son and I had this discussion just yesterday and he saw it my way (as he should). He's pretty independent and will disagree with me when he sees it another way, so I know he does agree on this point.
Anyway, we were watching a YouTube video of a runner we all know (I will not name him, but I will tell you that it is NOT Ritzenhein), and he hit the ground immediately after winning while all the losers in the race did not.
What that tells the other runners is:
"I won because I ran harder than you...I put more effort into this race than you did."
When, in reality, most of them probably worked just as hard as he did, and some maybe even harder (as he won comfortably and cruised the last several meters while others were duking it out for place).
He gets credit for the training of course and for winning, but we can't discount genetics in giving some a leg up. When you flop on the ground like that and writhe in agony, it's a big arrogant slap to the face to all those who just lost to you.
You never see Bekele doing that...just saying.
Curious what the Letsrun crowd thinks.
Flagpole wrote:
Noperz wrote:I:
strongly disagree
disagree
not sure
agree
* strongly agree *
with your bolded statements.
That makes you CORRECT!
Are you George Atlas?
No? Then shut the fuck up!
If you only flop when you win, it is horrible.
If you flop every race like Ritz, it is a little ridiculous but not objectionable.
If you flop some fraction of the time and the likelihood is roughly the same whether you win or lose, that is completely fine and normal.
If you only flop when you lose and make sure not to when you win so as not to offend Flagpole, that is your first step to being a real man?
Flagpole wrote:
Captain Obliviousness wrote:The truth is you could have gone faster but didn't want to hurt for no good reason.
Pain and discomfort aren't the only things that limit the speed of a runner. You could sprint for 60 meters for example and not feel one bit of PAIN, but that doesn't mean you should have unlimited speed; many physiological things limit that. Same is true for distance running.
By the way, there are people in this world who have a disorder where they feel absolutely ZERO pain...can put their face on a burner on the stove and feel nothing. Why aren't these people the best distance runners on the planet? Pain is not the limiting factor in distance running, that's why.
Maybe so but you were a pus*y in that race.
I know you're coming at it from a different angle, but I would say that athletes who do this kind of thing have not been coached properly. Bringing your heat rate down too quickly is not healthy for your heart, and 400-1500 athletes in particular (the events with the highest lactate levels, and those lactate levels may increase after the race is over) should not "allowed" to sit or lie down immediately after a race or a hard interval. There is less risk on much longer events, but it is still not wise. They are actually better off doing a 200-600m very slow jog to bring the lactate/H+ levels down more quickly.
mountain - molehill
Here's the bottom line Flagpole.
Yes, some runners have "flopped" on purpose after crossing the line. Others have COLLAPSED. The fact that you think you can always tell the difference based on a cursory glance of the race, without knowing the person or their race history, makes you what you typically are: wrong, and arrogant.
As I told you, I collapsed twice upon completing races, each time a win. It was 100% unintentional and unconscious action in each case. I am sure this has happened to others. In cases like mine, you should be praising it, not mocking it. I know I had absolutely no more to give.
May you someday know this feeling (and yes, running to the point of collapse is not the only way to achieve it, but it's sure one way)
(I bet you are referring to seeing German Fernandez in HS winning CA state X-C ? He collapsed at the line when winning by 49 seconds.)