After looking at the video a few times it looks like the car is swerving but only after hitting him. It looks like he the car swerved because he got caught by/under the tire. It looks like just prior that Stewarts car was driving straight passing normally like the other cars were. The car in front of Stewarts was also dangerously close as well and could very well have hit him as well.
Beat that dead conundrum wrote:
Except that there is no reasonable expectation that there will be a pedestrian on an active race track during a race. Let alone one who is in the middle of the track moving aggressively toward your car in the dark wearing all black. That's where it all falls apart.
Actually you seem to be purposely ignoring the key point. Of course there is no reasonale expectation that a pedestrian will be on the track.
But the key point is whether Tony did every reasonable think he could do to avoid an accident.
If you were driving would you have done the same as Tony or would you have been less reckless?
(I very much doubt you will answer that.)
Seriously now, Ward did not rush the car to damage the car so its nothing like your example.My question that I have asked that you like others will not answer is, "Did Tony do every he could to avoid risking hitting Ward?"If you honestly believe that Tony did everything he could but that Ward stepped into the car then I understand your position.If you just argue that Ward was reckless, then you are missing the point.
Captain oblivious wrote:
This is not about pedestrian walking onto the street without looking. This is more like a crazy guy rushing your car to do damage.
If some pedestrian decides to take on your car you do not have that responsibility. Nor should you endanger other people by swerving into them.
Conundrum wrote:
yhrebray wrote:I wouldn't say that I'm a TS "supporter", but I don't see any way that he acted negligently.
Did he do everything he could to avoid the accident? No not even close, so he is yes he was negligent.
He did as much to avoid it as a reasonable person could expect - you're just not a reasonable person.
You are right. He could have stopped his car immediately at the caution flag on the other side of the track. Anything he did after the accident was reckless and endangered Ward.
Conundrum wrote:
Seriously now, Ward did not rush the car to damage the car so its nothing like your example.
My question that I have asked that you like others will not answer is, "Did Tony do every he could to avoid risking hitting Ward?"
If you honestly believe that Tony did everything he could but that Ward stepped into the car then I understand your position.
If you just argue that Ward was reckless, then you are missing the point.
Captain oblivious wrote:This is not about pedestrian walking onto the street without looking. This is more like a crazy guy rushing your car to do damage.
If some pedestrian decides to take on your car you do not have that responsibility. Nor should you endanger other people by swerving into them.
"Of course there is no reasonale expectation that a pedestrian will be on the track."
Because he knew there was a wreck, he should have anticipated pedestrians on the track. The driver has to get out of the car, and emergency crews need to get the car out of there. If the field was under green, then he'd have no reason to believe anyone would be on the track. If Ward and he did indeed have a histoty, then he should have even anticipated Ward being pissed and maybe doing something irregular.
But they didn't have a history.
And the emergency crews, big noticeable trucks, were not on the track yet.
lontre wrote:
But they didn't have a history.
yhrebray wrote:
He did as much to avoid it as a reasonable person could expect
So you are saying a reasonable driver would have driven that close to a pedestrian in that situation? Really? You really don't think it was reckless at all?
I guess you are not alone in thinking this.
I think he was taking a reasonable line similar to the driver in front of him, yes.
Cross functional wrote:
And the emergency crews, big noticeable trucks, were not on the track yet.
lontre wrote:But they didn't have a history.
Others are saying they did have a history, and even if the trucks weren't there, he should believe they'd be coming soon, so drive like they are coming.
Then "others" are wrong.
lontre wrote:
Then "others" are wrong.
Says the Tony Stewart fan.
lontre wrote:
But they didn't have a history.
They did have a history. It doesn't really matter though.
It's not uncommon for drivers to get out of their cars & shake their fist or kick at the car who crashed them. Stewart knew darn well Ward was mad.
When you were kids & you pushed your brother down the snow pile when things got a little rough & then you needed to walk by him, would you expect anything from him? Would you take your eyes off of him? Or would you forget about him & go on your way & walk by him.
duuuuudee wrote:
lontre wrote:Then "others" are wrong.
Says the Tony Stewart fan.
I don't like Tony Stewart.
happyness wrote:
lontre wrote:But they didn't have a history.
They did have a history. It doesn't really matter though.
It's not uncommon for drivers to get out of their cars & shake their fist or kick at the car who crashed them. Stewart knew darn well Ward was mad.
When you were kids & you pushed your brother down the snow pile when things got a little rough & then you needed to walk by him, would you expect anything from him? Would you take your eyes off of him? Or would you forget about him & go on your way & walk by him.
No, they didn't have a history. A few races in their whole lifetime is not a history. Kevin may have been determined to beat Stewart but Stewart wouldn't have given any more thought to Kevin than any other racer on the track.
Crashes happen all the time in motorsports. If you think that all other drivers just hug the inside curve at 10mph after every crash then you are wrong. I am not saying that Tony forgot about the crashed car, I'm only saying that he didn't intentionally try to run up on Ward. And that they didn't have a history. You know, because they didn't.
malmo wrote:
Only a complete fool would believe that you can hear the engines on the other side of the track over the din of the engines right in front of the videographer. The camers has no ability to follow the sound of the engines as he follows the car around the track.
1.) The cars closest to the videographer drone out everything far away.
2.) You don't even hear the faintest sound of the crash. Why? I stated it before. I can guarantee you that if there were NO cars on the near side of the track you would have heard a resounding BOOM as the car crashed on the other side. You hear NOTHING.
3.) the voices of the people around the videographer are heard over the din of the engines as they pass by closest to the videogrpaher.
None of what you are hearing on the video is of the cars on the other side of the track. Everything is on the closest side, right in front of the viewers.
Everything else is your fetid imagination.
1.) Before the caution, yes.
2.) Of course.
3.) Only after the caution can you hear voices. Go back and check. No one even bothers talking when a race is in action because you can barely hear your own voice let alone another. Go to an oval sometime and listen for yourself.
The audio gain of the recording is compressed one way or another to fit within the range you're playing back. It's giving you no sense of the dramatic reduction in volume that occurs when everyone lets off the throttle.
The following are both true:
-A car crash is not loud enough to be heard (or at least picked up on a handheld camera) from across the track over the sound of nearby full-throttle sprint cars.
-A full-throttle sprint car is easily loud enough to be heard from across the track over the sound of nearby idling sprint cars.
lontre wrote:
I'm only saying that he didn't intentionally try to run up on Ward.
The most critical question isn't was Ward reckless or did Tony intentionally run up on Ward, but did Tony show negligent behavior through not taking reasonable and expected evasive steps to minimize the great risk of running into Ward and causing this great physical harm.
Of course that is hard to legally prove. But anyone watching this would have to agree that Tony, who lets be honest is a shiit, didn't really care to minimize any risk to Ward. His comment after killing him, "business as usual", is very telling about his character.
If people argue, that it happened so fast, and that Tony could not do anything to diminish Ward's risk, I could follow that reasoning. But I don't agree.
It's okay to have a different opinion. It is absolutely false to say that anyone watching the video would conclude that Stewart did nothing at all to minimize any risk to Ward.
Furthermore, that ("business as usual") was not a quote by Stewart. I don't like Tony, but I loathe liars.
yhrebray wrote:
Furthermore, that ("business as usual") was not a quote by Stewart. I don't like Tony, but I loathe liars.
The quote was from STEWART'S team: the people HE PAYS to present his opinion. Stewart is 100% responsible for the statement.