Lance goes on Dan Patrick show - says he still thinks of himself as Tour de France winner

For month I think not....

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Captain Oblivious wrote:

Lemond was doped without him realizing it. There was very likely a bit more than iron and B12 in those shots.

I don't blame him for believing he was clean but surely he must wonder about his miraculous recovery after a few shots.

At the time, there was nothing (other than iron for anemia) LeMond could have been given that would have made a significant improvement in his performance via an injection or two.

Well put and correct.

He was the worst of the worst wrote:

LA is the worst. He cheated lied and tried to ruin everyones reputation who told the truth.

Right, I agree with this.

The doping makes no difference to me, but the cheating, lying, and especially disparaging of others is unconscionable. It shows that he is not a good person.

Anyway, I'm not interested in cycling.

LA will never have the satisfaction of having won those races fair and square. That's what he wants, but will never get.

J.R. wrote:

The doping makes no difference to me

J.R. wrote:

the cheating is unconscionable

wut

Hard to believe there wasn't someone with a natural level of 40% who responded even better.

No way does that physiology "rule" work for 7 straight years.

Koppenberg wrote:

This is closer to the truth, but not close enough. There were a lot of folks who got popped for doping that weren't able to compete with Armstrong because they were suspended.

Hell, Lance dropped a dime on Tyler Hamilton.

I can forgive Armstrong a lot, but Marco Pantani died in obscure shame while Lance was crowing on TV. I don't forgive that.

Can you blame Lance for that? Marco had the same choice to make as Lance and he was just as guilty of cheating as Lance. LA didn't invent the situation, he just capitalized on it... apparently he was much better at it(or luckier) than others. Perhaps the Bill Gates of doping? Lance's downfall wasn't because people knew he was cheating it was because a lot of people did not like him and when the smelled blood they attacked. To go the baseball route.... AROD dirty cheater, Derek Jeter a hall of fame great who exceled in a time when everyone was cheating...yeah.... i gotta bridge to sell ya too!

Chef Rick wrote:

This board is too PC! wrote:

The clean riders are sacrificial lambs similar to pawns on a chess board. They break the wind and follow a dirty Lance on his charges to the lead and try and form a wind breaking funnel. I can't see any clean guy ever being the top rider on any team it's too tough to compete on a multi day riding marathon against dirty riders.

That only makes sense if you take for granted that some of the riders will be cheating. If, hypothetically, you put 200 top cyclists who were actually clean and had them race all over France and elsewhere for 21 days, SOMEBODY would come out the winner. And that would be the top clean cyclist, even if they averaged 16 mph.

Chef Rick, that is so true. IF they all cheats to be on the same level then why don't they all race clean to be on the same level. It would be cheaper, less dangerous and more rewarding for everyone.

There can only be one sample answer...most cheaters realize that they have a better chance racing as a cheater than a clean rider. Meaning they are better at racing among cheaters when they are cheating themselves than among clean riders when they are clean.

And Lance was one of them.

Not just "most cheaters realize" -- rather "ALL cheaters realize they have a better chance" otherwise, why cheat?

I think the simple point is that the Tour had a culture of cheating, which makes it really hard for individuals to pick the moral choice. When LA says "everybody" I doubt he means literally everyone on the tour, rather he meant everybody who was going to be his competition -- anyone who was going to have a chance at a strong showing. I respect the men who chose not to cheat, because they would have known they were out of the top end of the game. In fact, they would have known that they were probably putting their careers in jeopardy.

Just pointing out that many of Lance's accusers were liars and dopers who changed their story to out Lance. He didn't ruin anybody's reputation. All parties involved have to take ownership of their actions. Everybody was in it to make money, and they all wanted to be on Lance's team. Why? He was the best at the game for years, and all associated with him made money. That's what they were all after.

In this short essay

http://shawnrohrbach.com/read/

an author recounts his experience of interviewing relatively low-level cyclists who were also doping.

What this may mean is that probably no one in the Tour is clean and that that's probably been true for 25 years, at least. Probably more. It's widely acknowledged that Mercx was a cheater.

As has been noted, running is no better. Especially in the masters ranks these days. I haven't raced in years now, but my son ran a couple of road races this summer. At both there old dudes (50+) who looked like only slightly skinnier versions of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Anybody that age can easily get a doctor to prescribe testoterone or HGH. It's like the scene in Breaking Away. Everybody cheats....

That said, LA didn't win. And if I'm right that everyone in the Tour dopes, still, somewhere, there's somebody who's pedaling away every day, naturally, who would win a clean tour - even if, as has often been noted, it was done at 25km/hr rather than 50.

Show me the money wrote:

Just pointing out that many of Lance's accusers were liars and dopers who changed their story to out Lance. He didn't ruin anybody's reputation. All parties involved have to take ownership of their actions. Everybody was in it to make money, and they all wanted to be on Lance's team. Why? He was the best at the game for years, and all associated with him made money. That's what they were all after.

No, They weren't all dopers who changed their stories. Betsy Andreau, Emma O Reilly, David Walsh and he sued all of them. David Walsh lost his job because of the LA saga. Betsy Andreau's husband Frankie could not get a job in cycling. Most of his teamates didn't admit what USPS and Lance were doing until they where called under oath.

The big deal with the Lance case wasn't just the doping, it was the lies and the abuse of power. Lance lied under oath in a SCA trial in 2005. If you want to defend Lance, make sure you are informed about the facts.

Recognition Man wrote:

lol lol lol lol wrote:

At the time, there was nothing (other than iron for anemia) LeMond could have been given that would have made a significant improvement in his performance via an injection or two.

Well put and correct.

Two doctors on the cutting edge of performance enhancing drugs back in '89, on letsrun today!

Just iron, eh?

Facts? Nobody has the facts in this story (except - see below). Watched the "Armstrong Lie" many times and came away with a greater esteem for Lance after each viewing. This is just one guy's film, but if you study it you can see all parties were involved willingly. If you were in cycling at the time and chose to go head to head against the alpha male in the sport don't cry when you get crushed by him. Another choice would have been to not fight him. Even the UCI was on the LA train. Innocents? There weren't any involved in this business. Lance won 7 straight TDF. That's a fact.

So long as there was one clean rider in the world who wanted to ride the TdF during the years of Lance's wins, Lance was a cheat. It's that simple.

Show me the money wrote:

Lance won 7 straight TDF*

Fixed

So a guy who is built like runner when every PED abuser in baseball was built like a weightlifting goon was a PED abuser in the WWF era of baseball...

Link wrote:

In this short essay

http://shawnrohrbach.com/read/

And if I'm right that everyone in the Tour dopes...

Except you're wrong. Again, Hamilton and White both apologized to all the clean riders when they finally confessed to their own doping. Even Lance, probably more for appearance purposes, apologized to Bassons after he finally admitted that he was a cheat.

I don't see how anyone can watch that film and come away with more "esteem" for a cheat. A fraud. I can admiration for how well he lies. But "greater esteem" for Lance?! Give me a break.

Actually, if you watched the film you would realize that Lance should have never won the Tour… he tested positive in '99, but the UCI accepted his backdated TUE. A drug bust then changes the entire Armstrong narrative. Basically, end of story. A known drug user would have never been able to ride the cancer shield like Lance was able to do for so long. Hell, most would have put 2 and 2 together and realized that prior drug use likely led to his cancer.

Ben Johnson was the Olympic 100m champ in '88. That's a fact. Marion Jones won 5 Olympic medals in '00. That's a fact.