I agree. Jim Ryun gets way more credit than he deserves. I've seen people on this message board claim he could have ran 1:39 for the 800 and a 3:44 mile. There is no doubt that Ryun is great, but not one of the all time greats. Despite being dirty, I'd say Mary Decker Slaney was the best. She had records from 800 and up. She was in a world of her own. But of course we already know why...
Wang Junxia
Running on Empathy wrote:
Anti-womens rights wrote:Seb Coe, case closed
Seb Coe himself has said that Steve Ovett was one of the most naturally gifted athletes ever, and that he (Coe) had to work a lot harder than Ovett to get to the WR level.
Slightly misquoted.
Coe said, "Steve Ovett is probably the most talented athlete I ever competed against".
I do not ever recall him saying that he had to work "a lot harder to get to WR level"?
In response, Ovett has said, "I always knew Seb was the most naturally gifted runner Britain ever produced"
So they are both saying very similar things about each other.
Talent should be measured on what athletes actually achieve, not how precocious they were at a particular age. With the few exceptions of those who died or were seriously injured before reaching their peak, it doesn't matter at what age 'talent' comes to fruition.
Webb was precocious and undoubtedly talented, but he clearly wasn't as talented as those who managed to win medals and run faster, in most cases.
Welsh Wizard wrote:
Running on Empathy wrote:Seb Coe himself has said that Steve Ovett was one of the most naturally gifted athletes ever, and that he (Coe) had to work a lot harder than Ovett to get to the WR level.
Slightly misquoted.
Coe said, "Steve Ovett is probably the most talented athlete I ever competed against".
I do not ever recall him saying that he had to work "a lot harder to get to WR level"?
In response, Ovett has said, "I always knew Seb was the most naturally gifted runner Britain ever produced"
So they are both saying very similar things about each other.
One need only to analyze each one's progression to greatness to know Ovett was the more naturally talented of the two. Ovett was good at a very young age and was considered a prodigy before he turned 18, relatively tall (long legs = enhanced stride length) and very athletic. Ovett did it all without any enhanced training methods or dietary supplements. Coe was by comparison a sprite who benefitted greatly from his dad's scientific approach to training.
If anything, Coe was the more motivated, the more driven of the two.
TAA wrote:
Wang Junxia
I wonder how much of her insane times (truly insane) were talent (admittedly Ma looked through potentially millions of women I'm China's rural countryside to find his "Army") and how much were the crazy amounts of miles that they ran weekly.
Actually, they ran kilometers.
German.
El G, Geb, Snell are in the conversation. Geb wins because he ran on both surfaces.
Geb broke world records at every distance between 2K and marathon. 28 total in 14 different events over a span of 16 years. No other runner is anywhere near that kind of range. It's absolutely stupid to compare any other runner to Geb. He is the greatest of all-time by a large margin and probably the greatest athlete of all-time ahead of Pele, Ali, Jordan, Phelps, et al
You clearly did not read or grasp to content of my post.
Yes Ovett was better at a younger age, but that is because he was fully developed at an earlier age. At 18 he would have been doing heavier training than Coe at a corresponding age. This does not make you more talented, it makes you an earlier developer.
Coe was still growing up to 1978. Peter Coe developed Seb at a gradual and incremental rate.
You do Harry Wilson a great disservice to imply his training wasn't as developed as Coe's. Both had access to same knowledge and Coe's training was made public in about 81. They just trained slightly differently.
True talent is running to the best of your ability. It has nothing to do with how quickly you get there.
I thought true talent was the ability itself?
So wouldn't the ones who did the most off of the least effort be the place to look for our answer?
This thread is already ended. Augustine Choge.
MiriamWebbsta wrote:
I thought true talent was the ability itself?
So wouldn't the ones who did the most off of the least effort be the place to look for our answer?
Yes, actual ability not theoretical ability.
You say it is someone who does the most of the least effort. Well how do you measure or quantify effort. Every athlete is unique and each responds best to a particular blend of training that suits him/her.
We 'hear' that Ryun trained incredibly hard, so does that mean he lacked talent because his achievements came about due to hard work?
It doesn't matter how hard you work, if the inherent natural talent isn't there, then you won't achieve at the highest level. The most talented athletes are the ones who run the fastest, win the most medals and achieve over a long time.
Loot wrote:
Geb broke world records at every distance between 2K and marathon. 28 total in 14 different events over a span of 16 years. No other runner is anywhere near that kind of range. It's absolutely stupid to compare any other runner to Geb. He is the greatest of all-time by a large margin and probably the greatest athlete of all-time ahead of Pele, Ali, Jordan, Phelps, et al
I have said exactly this for years. After his fantastic Marathon debut in Paris, Kenenisa Bekle has the chance to challange Gebrselasie. At the moment he is still behind Gebrselassie, but this might change in the next years. We will see.
Bad Wigins wrote:
This thread is already ended. Augustine Choge.
The problem with Choge is that he never really wins anything at any distance. He is one of the most versatile, although I'd be confident Farah and Auoita would beat him over any distance from 1500 to 10k, but I would not necessarily say the most talented.
rfmaioral wrote:
just the facts wrote:A very talented middle distance runner that at least belongs in the conversation is Belgian Ivo Van Damme.
The guy had quick shifting gears like Coe & Ovett. He had two Olympic silvers in '76 (800/1500) at age 22. He was killed in a car wreck shortly after the games. He looked to be the sports next big star before the accident.
That's true. Great to remember him. British era with Ovett/Coe/Cram could have been very different with Van Damme around.
He makes me to remember Prefontaine as well. Pre was also a pure talent. In my opinion both Van Damme and Pre would have won gold medals in either in 76 and/or 80.
Van Damme wasn't going to win any gold in '76 because he didn't.
Captain Oblivious wrote:
Van Damme wasn't going to win any gold in '76 because he didn't.
It really is not difficult to understand that the guy meant '76 for Pre and '80 for Van Damme since they each died prior to those games.
Not get back to the card table and let the adults talk.
said88 wrote:
Loot wrote:Geb broke world records at every distance between 2K and marathon. 28 total in 14 different events over a span of 16 years. No other runner is anywhere near that kind of range. It's absolutely stupid to compare any other runner to Geb. He is the greatest of all-time by a large margin and probably the greatest athlete of all-time ahead of Pele, Ali, Jordan, Phelps, et al
I have said exactly this for years. After his fantastic Marathon debut in Paris, Kenenisa Bekle has the chance to challange Gebrselasie. At the moment he is still behind Gebrselassie, but this might change in the next years. We will see.
I'm a big fan of Bekele, one of my favorite athletes, but in all honesty there is nothing he can do to catch Gebrselassie. Bekele is already 32 and has broken WR's in only 4 events, only 5 times. In 4 different years. (Geb broke WR's in 13 diff year). That's not even close. Bekele broke his first WR in 2004 and his last in 2008. Geb's span of 1st WR to last WR was 16 1/2 years! For Bekele to equal that span he will have to break a WR in 2021. He's got a lot of catching up to do and he is already prone to missing entire seasons due to injury.
Loot wrote:
said88 wrote:I have said exactly this for years. After his fantastic Marathon debut in Paris, Kenenisa Bekle has the chance to challange Gebrselasie. At the moment he is still behind Gebrselassie, but this might change in the next years. We will see.
I'm a big fan of Bekele, one of my favorite athletes, but in all honesty there is nothing he can do to catch Gebrselassie. Bekele is already 32 and has broken WR's in only 4 events, only 5 times. In 4 different years. (Geb broke WR's in 13 diff year). That's not even close. Bekele broke his first WR in 2004 and his last in 2008. Geb's span of 1st WR to last WR was 16 1/2 years! For Bekele to equal that span he will have to break a WR in 2021. He's got a lot of catching up to do and he is already prone to missing entire seasons due to injury.
When Geb broke the 5000 WR, it was 12:58 by Aouita
When Bekele broke the WR, it was 12:39
Bad comparison
Geb broke the 5K WR 6 times. lol. Wanna fail again?