Agree or disagree w Letsrun - Ohio State track and field is a joke

Coaches Network:

I wanted to say thank you for the rare, well written and well thought out post on this message board. I am currently a Division I coach (not in Ohio) and to see the constant under-performance of Ohio State is sad. Certainly, they have had great individuals over the years, but they have so much going for them that they could dominate. Ohio is a great high school state and if they only swept the state clean it would be excellent for the program. Again, thank you for taking the time to actually write something that was intelligent.

Somewhat strangely after all of this complaining, Ohio State has had their best in state recruiting year in a long time this year. This staff has seemingly been the one that's tried to reintegrate themselves with coaches in the state and is making a real effort at keeping the best kids home. This year, off the top of my head, they're getting 4 distance kids, 2 throwers, 2 or 3 sprinters, a hurdler, and a vaulter; all of whom are the best in the state. They're scholarship dollars aren't unlimited, but it's a pretty good haul. Just looking at Dyestat and Milesplit, they have a kid coming from Indiana and a kid from New Jersey, but otherwise they'll have one of the best classes in the country with just Ohio kids.

If Ohio State ever even suggested that they gave the same regard for track that most other big money college departments they would have no problem not only landing most top instate talent, but also recruiting nationally.

They have a long time built stigma that only Robert Gary overcame for a short period to get Ohio talent in one event area.

There is so much talent year in and year out in Ohio. The best recent thrower competes for D2 Findley. But that might have been an academic eligibility situation.

A 17 foot vaulter last year went out of state,

They aren't even trying whereas so many other programs do.

Honestly, OSU is sitting with a great hand right now. The team is on the rise, getting fourth at BIG TENS this year when they were expected next to last. They only graduate 6 points and are bringing in for a second year a top ten national recruiting class. Many of their current runners have moved into national calibre guys in only the last few weeks of this past season. As long as this shakeup doesn't shake this team too badly, they are actually a contender for next years BIG TEN, and that combined with this current momentum could fundamentally change this program.

But that's a big IF. A huge part of the buckeye's recent rise in the is credited to incredible assistant coaches, and even some volunteer coaches on the staff. Losing beathea could mean losing this entire staff, which definitely would stall the program's rise. A new head coach would bring with him his own staff, and I know that even if he offers positions to these current staffers, many of them, namely the assistants, would move on.

Some may argue that by hiring a big time head coach and having him bring along his own team would make the buckeyes their best in the long run. Ill concede that it's hard to argue against that optimism in the long run, but you'd definitely have to sacrifice the team's short run success in exchange for this rebuilding dream; not to mention that it's hard to hope that OSU's AD would suddenly start breaking their pattern of indifference towards the sport and divert more funds to its cause.

In my opinion, OSU track and field's best chance for success is realized by retaining current assitant coach Bryce Allen. The guy is proven to be a great distance coach, but is a even better administrator and recruiter. He is the reason for why OSU brought in two great recruiting classes over the past two years. It's somewhat fitting that a team representing a university that is the pride of an expansive, blue collar, mid-western culture would promote within the company rather than seeking an outsider. But regardless of this social precedent, OSU would be hard pressed to find a better canidate for the job than Coach Allen. Passing up on him would be an egregious error.

He is interviewing (a finalists) for another job out of state.

And he should, any program would benefit under his direction. Still doesn't change my opinion that OSU would be better with him than without.

Just curious as to what makes you say Coach Allen is a great distance coach (serious question as I am out of the loop)? Looking at TFRRS, they look average at best for mid/long distance at a major Div I school, outside one steepler who is ranked top 20 in the country. If he did indeed help recruit some good talent in other events to OSU, good on him. Personally, I feel anyone with a little bit of personality would be able to easily clean house in recruiting at OSU, so that shouldn't be a concern if the new head coach would bring that himself or bring in someone who can do that.

If it was up to me, with the current payscale, I would hire a sprint/jumps/throws stud head coach and recruit those areas heavy with scholarships and get as many high quality distance runners to walk-on as possible. Build those bridges with local HS coaches and dominate the Big 10's in the non-Distance events.

If you're not sure of his history I can understand as to why you'd question Coach Allen's ability as a distance coach. First, those guys on roster right now we're not his recruits, but the remnants of the previous coaches complicated departure. Almost all we're walk ons and after two years under his program they each had incredible breakouts this outdoor season. Even the fifth year guy that ran under RoJo at cornell had some serious improvements in his longer distance races. The distance team scored 17 points at outdoor big tens when they were expected to be around 6.

But if you go back and trace his history as a coach he has had some serious success. He was the distance coach at Louisville and coached Canadian steeple chaser Matt Hughes to two national championships as well as coaching Wesley korir to all American finishes. His cross teams at Louisville were conference winners and national qualifiers. His recruiting at that school and build up of a strong distance program was a massive factor of them winning the BIG EAST outdoor track title in 2008, as well as finish runner up in 2010. He also got his start at Northern Arizona, a known top notch distance program, where he was developed first as a recruiting coordinator and then later became an assistant distance coach for both men and women's teams.

His experience is more than enough proof for me to feel comfortable in claiming that he is a great distance coach.

Appreciate the feedback. Still am not impressed by what the current OSU runners are doing, as many were high quality walk-ons (based on a quick search of HS times). Looks like he can do a good job with a top notch stud athlete but maybe his true strength is in recruiting. Sounds like you know him so I hope he does well for himself and either gets to stay at OSU or goes somewhere else and gets to continue getting better and turning a program around or building one up.

The fact that those coaches have produced and have a top notch coach staff are all things that I mentioned in a prior post. I don't think mitchel would leave Akron as he has a great set up there, probably no chance Logan would leave ashland, Sylvester cant get a coaching job without a degree and butch is probably making more coaching privately than he would coaching at ohio state without all of the stress that comes with it. This discussion in 100 percent hypothetical, none of us have any idea of what's going to happen at osu. We are all just offering our opinions. I think we all agree on the point that something needs to change at Osu in order for them to be the top level program that they should be. I think that their success will come with a combination of things mentioned on this post. Recruiting out of state and international athletes, more note worthy staff, better funding to the program and coaches, sweeping Ohio recruiting. Great discussion

We must also add to the discussion that some of the sprinters that osu could use are on the football field so that doesn't help the situation either.

8th at men's big 10 cross country.

0 men's distance points at indoor big 10.

17 men's distance points at outdoor big 10.

I'd be interviewing at other places too.

Anyone who talks about how any team places in the Big Ten needs to get a grip. This weekend will be the conference's 66th straight year without a national outdoor championship. The conference simply is not competitive on the national level.

Are you sure Allen was doing all of that coaching at Louisville? To my knowledge, Ron Mann was doing the actual coaching (and is still coaching Korir) of that team and Allen was an assistant. When the team was finally turned over to Allen, performanace suffered and he was eventually let go in favor of Joe Walker.

be a mann wrote:

Are you sure Allen was doing all of that coaching at Louisville? To my knowledge, Ron Mann was doing the actual coaching (and is still coaching Korir) of that team and Allen was an assistant. When the team was finally turned over to Allen, performanace suffered and he was eventually let go in favor of Joe Walker.

I'll admit that I don't know the louisville situation as well as the current OSU one, but I do know for a fact that he wasn't let go, he left for another business opportunity (non-track related) Go to the Louisville Site in the archives and it explains that "Walker replaces Brice Allen, who left to participate in his family owned business". From talking to those who knew the situation, (such as his runners) it appeared that Allen wasn't given credit for his performance as a coach (which the team assures was substantial) and he had to make a decision to stay or leave for it appeared that he had gone as far as he was going to go at louisville. It would be like working for company where you prepared an entire presentation, delivered it, and then had to watch as your boss go the credit while you received none in return as your boss didn't want t draw too much attention to you.

Also note that after his departure Louisville declined heavily as a conference power, going from WINNING the conference in Allen's final year (2011), to getting 11TH in 2012. Since then they have had mediocre success at best, getting 6th in 2013. Losing Brice may have taken its toll on Ron Mann as well, because he retired last year.

Point-in-case, Coach Allen elevates programs, not just through understanding how to get the most out of distance runners, but because he is a recruiting guru.

Future Buckeyes Star in State Meets

Combine for seven state titles, 18 medals at championship meets

June 10, 2014

COLUMBUS, Ohio – The 2014 Ohio State men’s track and field recruiting class is certainly foreshadowing future success in state meets across the country this month as eight committed recruits have combined to win seven state titles and 18 state medals at championship meets held in the states of Ohio, Indiana and New Jersey in recent weeks.

Here is a look at the recent and past successes of these soon-to-be Buckeyes:

Davon Anderson (Cleveland, Ohio – Glenville)

Anderson looked right at home at Jesse Owens Memorial Stadium this past weekend during the 2014 OHSAA Division I State Championship which took place June 6-7. He claimed three state titles including in the 110m hurdles (13.64) and as part of the 4x100-meter (41.47) and 4x400-meter relay (3:13.75) teams, while settling for runner-up honors in the 300-meter hurdles (36.39). His efforts played a big part in Glenville taking home the team championship as his events scored 38 of their 40 team points.

Some of Anderson’s past achievements include –

2013 South Carolina state champion in the 110m hurdles; runner-up in the 100m

2012 South Carolina state champion in the 200m

South Carolina Mr. Track, 2011-13

Prolific running back at Cleveland Glenville and Summerville, S.C. (1,341 yards and 15 TDs in 2012); 2013 Division II Special Mention All-Ohio and Honorable Mention Cleveland Plain Dealer All-Star

Selected Ohio State over Oregon, Texas A&M, Florida and USC

Nick Elswick (Chardon, Ohio – Chardon)

Elswick also enjoyed his time on his future home track surface this past weekend at the OHSAA DI state meet, winning the 3,200-meter run in a time of 9:02.41. He had previously claimed runner-up and fifth-place finishes in the event in 2013 and 2012, respectively.

Some of Elswick’s past achievements include –

Runner-up in the 5000m at the 2013 New Balance Outdoor Nationals

Fourth place at the 2012 OHSAA Division I State Cross Country Championship

Placed 30th at the 2012 Foot Locker National Cross Country Championship

Clayton Bowie (Indianapolis, Ind. – Southport)

Bowie claimed his second-consecutive state championship in the 3,200-meter run at the 2014 IHSAA Track and Field State Tournament (Indiana). After winning the event in 2013, Bowie repeated this year with a time of 9:06.63.

Past achievements of Bowie include –

Eighth place at the 2013 Indiana State Cross Country Championship

Jared Ballenger (Fremont, Ohio – Fremont Ross)

Ballenger took home the discus DI OHSAA state title this past weekend in Columbus. His first place toss traveled a distance of 182-10. He also medaled in the shot put, claiming third place with a throw of 59-4.50.

Past achievements of Ballenger include –

11th place in the discus at the 2013 OHSAA DI State Championship

Sixth place in the discus at the 2012 OHSAA DI State Championship

Max Seipel (Avon Lake, Ohio – Avon Lake)

Seipel competed in the discus and shot put events at the 2014 OHSAA State Championship. He finished second only to his future teammate Ballenger in the discus with a toss of 179-06 and placed eighth overall in the shot put with a throw of 55-6.75.

Past achievements of Seipel include –

Fifth place in the shot put at the 2013 OHSAA Division I State Championship

Eighth place in the shot put at the 2013 OATCCC Division I State Championship

Cole Gorski (Tontogany, Ohio – Otsego)

Gorski competed in three events at the OHSAA Division II State Championships June 6-7 at Jesse Owens Memorial Stadium. He took home gold in the pole vault with a mark of 16-2.00 while also claiming sixth and ninth in the 200-meter (22.35) and 100-meter dashes (11.29), respectively.

Some of Gorski’s past achievements include –

2014 OATCCC DII Indoor State Champion in the pole vault (15-6.00)

Kevin Blank (Solon, Ohio – Solon)

Blank took home the bronze for the second-straight year in the 1,600-meter run at the 2014 OHSAA DI state meet with a time of 4:12.12. He also took third in the event in 2013.

Past achievements of Blank include –

Finished 17th at the 2013 OHSAA Division I State Cross Country Championship; placed 16th in 2012

Mitch Leitch (Columbus, Ohio – Dublin Jerome)

Leitch finished close behind Elswick in the 3,200-meter run at the OHSAA DI state meet. He finished fourth with a time of 9:08.45.

Past achievements of Leitch include –

Sixth place at the 2013 OHSAA Division I State Cross Country Championship

Sixth place in the 3200m at the 2013 OHSAA Division I State Championship

Jake Mandel (Columbus, Ohio – Dublin Jerome)

Mandel was following close behind his high school teammate Leitch in the 3,200-meter run at the OHSAA DI state championship. Mandel placed sixth overall, crossing the finish line in a time of 9:12.88.

Past achievements for Mandel include –

Seventh place at the 2013 OHSAA Division I State Cross Country Championship; placed 15th in 2012 and 16th in 2011

Runner-up at the 2013 Midwest Meet of Champions (XC)

Fifth place in the 3200m at the 2013 OATCCC Division I State Championship

11th place in the 3200m at the 2013 OHSAA Division I State Championship

Zack Bazile (Montvale, N.J. – St. Joseph)

Bazile claimed runner-up honors in the long jump at the NJSIAA Track and Field Meet of Champions (New Jersey) this past week. His jump of 24-1.00 was just narrowly beat out for the state title. He also finished sixth in the triple jump competition with a jump of 46-4.75. The week before he claimed first-place finishes in both events at the Non-Public A NJSIAA Championships.

Past achievements for Bazile include –

Fourth place in the long jump at the Non-Public A NJSIAA State Championships in 2013

Seventh place in the triple jump at the Non-Public A NJSIAA State Championships in 2013

Coach Mitchell has applied for every major conference HC position that's come open every year. He'd leave Akron in a hot minute if OSU offered. The drawback for OSU will be if they keep the programs split as that certainly seems to limit the salary they'd be willing to offer.

I honestly think this discussion only applies to the men's team. The women have been pretty competitive over the past 5 years. So would combining the programs demote coach Dennis whose doing a great job on the women's side. I think it would be a mistake for Mitchell to leave Akron and he may be using those other schools as leverage to get a raise at a job that he wants to stay at in the first place which is pretty smart on his end. I do agree that if the salary doesn't increase they won't be able to land a high caliber coach.

The women's team has been in a steady decline since winning the B1G in '12 going to 3rd in '13 and 8th this year. Perhaps that is just a bump in the road and they'll build again.