David Epstein Says Tyson Gay Has Implicated Jon Drummond in Helping Him Dope

Seriously. Anyone thinks that 9.69 (apparently coming from an injury) was a clean performance?

And moreover...Gay is (was?) a great atlete, with great talent, and he did not make the olympic podium!! he was massively doped and was 4th!! 4th!! And people thinks that Gatlin (bronze) was clean in London? Running the same times that ran when he was busted back in 06? And people SHOULD know that Usain Bolt and Yohan Blake are DIRTY too.

But wait...a clean Usain Bolt was 0.18 seconds faster than a dirty Tyson Gay?

It's easy to beat the system if you got a lab behind you.

Anyone thinks that athletes coached by John Smith (like Drummond) were/are clean?

Guess USADA should probably take this video down of Tyson talking about being clean LOL

http://www.usada.org/myvictory/videos/default.aspx

agip wrote:

that list of ways to beat testing is incredibly depressing. I've already stopped watching pro sprinting and throws - do I have to give up distance too?

It depends on whether you can enjoy competition in which it is impossible to prevent cheating, accepting that testing can catch certain egregious offenses and dictate how the doping is done to a certain degree.

I still favor harsher rather than more lenient penalties. Athletes need to know that if they are caught beyond a reasonable doubt they will be forfeiting their careers, otherwise the reward to risk ratio for cheating is too high [cue: delusional LRC posters who don't believe PEDs enhance performance]. Also, the more people do it the easier it is to rationalize that there is no choice.

I like incentivizing the ratting, but Gay got off too easy.

Accipe in veritate wrote:

I like incentivizing the ratting, but Gay got off too easy.

He's out what will almost certainly be his only Olympic medal, $500,000 just in prize money and appearance fees, not to mention two or three times that since his sponsor stopped paying him and his reputation is in ruins, and all this for, what the reports say, taking something Coach Drummond told him to take and was told was ok to take (and failing on his part to independently verify its contents).

Compare that to someone like Aaron Braun, who lied and lied and sullied the name of the tester who took his positive sample.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

He's out what will almost certainly be his only Olympic medal, $500,000 just in prize money and appearance fees, not to mention two or three times that since his sponsor stopped paying him and his reputation is in ruins, and all this for, what the reports say, taking something Coach Drummond told him to take and was told was ok to take (and failing on his part to independently verify its contents).

Compare that to someone like Aaron Braun, who lied and lied and sullied the name of the tester who took his positive sample.

If Tyson actually released all the names of NFL and T&F athletes he knew were in on this, and they all know he's the one who snitched, that could be really bad for Tyson. As part of a plea bargain I would have required USADA or WADA publicly state I wouldn't name anybody, but did admit to wrongdoing, or something like that.

I just think that puts Tyson in a potentially dangerous situation for the press to say he ratted a ton of people out so he could come back and compete 1 year sooner.

Ryan Braun.

To me it seems like perspective and individual cases.

Gatlin is different than Gay, who is different from Bolt etc...

Gatlin got a performance benefit from doping and probably still gets it as benefits can last years.

Gay obviously got a benefit. Bolt and Blake? Who knows but Bolt does seem like the cleanest one even if we don't know.

(and Bolt's legs are a lot longer than Gay's)

We also need to acknowledge 'legal' doping (taking stims and adrenal boosters in workouts but not races) as well as TUE exemptions vs illegal doping which Powell and Gay got busted for.

It should be obvious by now that likely every elite athlete is using 'legal' doping methods and TUE's to enhance workouts and recovery. These methods will probably remain because its just too expensive both testing wise and legally to stop them and keep the level of testing consistent.

Wrong. They are all the same. IDENTICAL.

This story makes Gay even more guilty, more of a douchebag, than he was before.

He was taking something that DRUMMOND recommended, controlled, and supplied?

DRUMMOND, the guy who every sprinter (Gay) knows was accused of doping by Laynes, a guy who would know?

Give me a break. Call it what you want--reckless disregard, willful blindness, whatever--it satisfies the mens rea for guilt.

Tyson Gay = Guilty of Doping

fdsgadfg wrote:

It should be obvious by now that likely every elite athlete is using 'legal' doping methods and TUE's to enhance workouts and recovery.

Nope

That is what the drug cheats tell themselves though to justify it in their minds though.

Some people cheat, some don't.

wejo: "The article also explains why many (including LRC) believe it is essential to give reduced bans to athletes who cooperate with USADA and help out others cheats presumably like Tyson Gay did. As David said in an email to LRC this week, "It should be clear to all now that sophisticated dopers can beat testing"."

=

me: "The only thing it will get the administrators is factual confirmation of what everybody with half a brain has known all along, which is worth something if you are an administrator, but worthless to anybody else, and worthless to t&f in particular."

Oh, you can beat testing? Really? Well, we need proof of that (more proof than 9.58 (0.0)_ because you are complete morons).

F-ing F-wads.

Nothing will change because of this event. NOTHING. What did we learn here that we didn't already know about with Ben Johnson, who doped for a long time and passed all the tests? With Marion? With Lance and every other cyclist?

Give me a F-ing break, 9.58 (0.0)

Er... wrote:

I'll try this for you again. Gay's claim is that he thought the substance he was using, which Drummond carried and encouraged him to use, was legal. He admits to doping, but says he did so unknowingly.

So without anyone being able to see into the future, including me, Gay can indeed claim that

A. He doped unknowingly

B. Drummond encouraged/facilitated it.

since in retrospect, he realizes the significance of Drummond carrying the stuff and encouraging him to use it.

guess i missed that part wrote:

[quote]Er... wrote:

Are you really unable to comprehend how he can claim both "unknowingly taking PEDs" AND that Drummond was facilitating their use?

>>

Considering we JUST learned about the Drummond fact today, yes. I wish I could see the future like you.

But didn't I read that the ingredients were on the tube?

"So without anyone being able to see into the future, including me, Gay can indeed claim that

A. He doped unknowingly

B. Drummond encouraged/facilitated it.

since in retrospect, he realizes the significance of Drummond carrying the stuff and encouraging him to use it."

You assume that he realizes the significance "in retrospect".

Given his knowledge of WHO Drummond is, and that he was doped as early as 98 according to Laynes, it is not credible that Gay's realization was made only "in retrospect", but "in prospect" instead.

He absolutely knew what he was doing, this was the plan, that Drummond would be the one to take the fall, and Gay would have plausible deniability.

It might have worked, but for Gay's foreknowledge of Drummond's character.

It's not even a nice try. If I were prosecuting this, they would be squirming, a lot.

Ray wrote:

But didn't I read that the ingredients were on the tube?

That's right, my friend. Ty-ty was given a cream that said quite clearly "TESTOSTERONE" right there on the ingredients. But, you know, he thought that was the LEGAL testosterone that you are allowed to take, which is completely different to the illegal testosterone that is banned. Is that so hard to understand?

My friend is selling me this EPO that I inject a few times a week. It even says EPO right there on the syringe. But it's OK, right, because I know it's not illegal, because a CHIROPRACTOR said so. And anyway, professional football players (those paragons of virtue) use it too, so it must be legal, right?

Anyone know who else Drummond was "handling"?

Not even a nice try, like I said.

The amazing thing here that we are expected to believe is the self-delusion--not regarding the drugs, but regarding the performance:

We are expected to believe that this guy actually BELIEVED that he could run low 9.7 on his own ability! That he could come back a few months after surgery and finish a close fourth at the Olympic Games, ON HIS OWN ABILITY!

Yeah, right. Letting him go is a terrible decision. He is a huge POS.

Really, any John Smith and Jon Drummond athletes are probably dirty then, right?

Inger Miller would be one too, wouldn't she? She went from good times in the mid 90s to GREAT times in the late 90s, going toe to toe with a doped up Marion Jones.

I forgot about this until just now. Wouldn't be surprised if it had been something else.

uh, yeah, glad you caught that before i piled on

The biggest John Smith POS was of course the Greener.