I've been running 45-50 mpw pretty consistently now for a year or so. Last marathon was in November, didn't go well. PR is 3:10. Want to break 3 this coming fall.
How fast and for how long should I be running my tempo runs? Today I did an hour run, 10 mins of warmup followed by 30 mins in the 6:30s (a couple of miles at high 6:30s a couple of miles low 6:30s) and then 20 mins cooldown. Is this a good tempo run or should I really be running sub 6:30 for more like 45 mins? Thanks!
Seems like when I was running under 3 that I was doing 4 mile tempos around 6:30 but running them even splits. However these were more occasional workouts just to change things up. The bulk of your tempo work probably needs to be longer (working up to 12-15 miles) at goal pace.
beard scratcher wrote:
Seems like when I was running under 3 that I was doing 4 mile tempos around 6:30 but running them even splits. However these were more occasional workouts just to change things up. The bulk of your tempo work probably needs to be longer (working up to 12-15 miles) at goal pace.
Thanks, I plan on incorporating goal marathon pace workouts into the week as well, but was also thinking of doing a 4-5 miler at faster, closer to HM, pace. Is that not a good idea?
Yeah that works. HM race pace for someone running 3 flat is around 1:25 which is right around the 6:30 pace you've been doing. I just wouldn't do two tempos a week. Alternate between working up the long tempo at goal pace one week, and dropping down to your HM pace run on the other week. Use the 2nd hard day for long intervals/track work.
beard scratcher wrote:
Use the 2nd hard day for long intervals/track work.
Thanks, one last question. What type of long intervals worked for you? When I BQed with 3:10 I did Yasso 800s, but longer may be better.
Doesn't anyone else think that the tempo runs should be done at his current 15k race pace, not some future goal pace?
Get the mileage up to about 70 miles per week (over time, of course). Start ramping up the miles now. That should be your #1 priority.
^ this
I've been where you are at. You need miles. Get to at least 80, gradually. The weekly workouts don't matter that much as long as something is there, well.....what is your recent 10k time.
Jbatl wrote:
^ this
I've been where you are at. You need miles. Get to at least 80, gradually. The weekly workouts don't matter that much as long as something is there, well.....what is your recent 10k time.
I haven't run a 10k in quite awhile. Last race was a 4miler I did in 24:35 on a hilly course (Central Park).
I will work toward getting the miles up. What pace should I be running the bulk of my mileage-building runs?
Just get in shape, then easy runs will be faster than 7:00 pace and you can en route 3:00 on one of your easy long runs.
stupid person wrote:
I've been running 45-50 mpw pretty consistently now for a year or so. Last marathon was in November, didn't go well. PR is 3:10. Want to break 3 this coming fall.
How fast and for how long should I be running my tempo runs? Today I did an hour run, 10 mins of warmup followed by 30 mins in the 6:30s (a couple of miles at high 6:30s a couple of miles low 6:30s) and then 20 mins cooldown. Is this a good tempo run or should I really be running sub 6:30 for more like 45 mins? Thanks!
Get up to 70 miles/week.
I once saw a survey of people's training plans that generated boston qualifiers. The training plans varied a little, but the common theme was mileage. No once was BQ'ing off of less than an average of 50 mpw. And runners who did more mileage had faster times.
You may be able to do 3 hours off of 55 mpw, but then you throw your fate into if everything comes together on race day, if weather is ideal, if you face a minor injury and need to take a week or two off, if you don't have to take some time off of training due to travel/work/whatever. Aim a bit high at 70 mpw and you can afford to have a few setbacks if they occur. And they will probably occur.
m runner wrote:
Get the mileage up to about 70 miles per week (over time, of course). Start ramping up the miles now. That should be your #1 priority.
I was just replying to the initial question but yes, building up consistent mileage base is another big (if not the biggest) piece of the puzzle. For me it was a bunch of weeks in the 60s and a 2 or 3 70s. (This was in my early 40s and that was about all I could handle)
Truly large wrote:
Just get in shape, then easy runs will be faster than 7:00 pace and you can en route 3:00 on one of your easy long runs.
This is my advice to everyone who wants to run a "fast" marathon and people look at me like I'm crazy. JUST RUN. You'll get faster, it's a pretty simple concept. I don't think anybody running 3:00 needs a training plan. A mileage plan definitely, but who the hell needs to be running 800s at the track.
I would never say this to a person's face, but if you truly want to do well in a marathon and you're not running at least 60 miles a week, why would I waste my breath. Also races should just stop timing people after 3:30 cuz who really cares. Give them their finishing medal, but do they really need a time?
How fast should these 60-70 miles be at?
Are you in 3:10 shape now?
What shape do you think you are in?
4.5 miles in 30:00 would suggest 3:15 shape.
My guess is that your tempo run is more of a time trial.
To break 3:00 you never have to do any workouts/tempo runs faster than your 4.5 miles in 30. At that pace you would be MUCH better off running repeat miles with 200m jog rest.
You need to log lots of miles and get good at running part/most of your long runs at 7:30 pace.
Y#(GV&78t0fix wrote:
Are you in 3:10 shape now?
What shape do you think you are in?
4.5 miles in 30:00 would suggest 3:15 shape.
My guess is that your tempo run is more of a time trial.
To break 3:00 you never have to do any workouts/tempo runs faster than your 4.5 miles in 30. At that pace you would be MUCH better off running repeat miles with 200m jog rest.
You need to log lots of miles and get good at running part/most of your long runs at 7:30 pace.
The tempo run wasn't a time trial, that was a controlled run. I could run much faster than that in a time trial. I think I'm probably in 3:10 shape now, want to try to get to sub 3 shape.
I understand that I should run more miles but at what pace should the bulk of my mileage be?
The calculator I use suggests that if you are in 3:10 shape, you should be able to run 4.5 miles in 29:14. That is close enough to be a time trial.
The bulk of your mileage should be at 8:30 pace and you should start off the first mile each day in about 9:00.
If you really can run say 28:00 for 4.5 miles that most likely shows that the marathon is not your best event.
Y#(GV&78t0fix wrote:
If you really can run say 28:00 for 4.5 miles that most likely shows that the marathon is not your best event.
That may be the case. But I don't think I ever really trained properly for a marathon. Most of my marathons have been run with a peak under 50mpw.
Miles, not tempo. And do some hard shorter racing.