What physical traits and/or running styles indicate a potential steepler

Traditionally, being not quite fast enough to make the team at 5000 or 1500 ;-)

There is an extremely strong correlation between being a good distance runner and being a good steepler. There really isn't anything that would rule out a good distance runner from being a good steepler, except for maybe just being a complete pus.

Learning to steeple effectively takes some time and effort, granted, but really the steeples are so low that learning to run through them as opposed to jumping over them shouldn't be tough for any slightly athletic runner as long as they are mentally willing to practice it.

The best steeplechasers in the world are very tiny men who adapt well to the herky-jerky improvisational nature of the event.

Those athletes are ones who tend not to be "rhythm runners." Rhythm runners tend to do very poor in the steeplechase because of the event's herky-jerky nature.

The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. There is no other event in track and field like it.

Finally, anyone who calls the barriers "steeples" is, by default, unqualified to give advice about the steeplechase.

eurodonkey wrote:

Traditionally, being not quite fast enough to make the team at 5000 or 1500 ;-)

In America we've had many steeplechasers run fine in other events.

Horace Ashenfelter, Greg Meyer, Thom Hunt, Ken Martin, John Gregorek, Bruce Bickford, George Young, Bob Schul, Don Clary, Ivan Huff, Mark Coogan, Marc Davis, Mike Roche, Tim Broe, Clint Wells, Robert Gary, Dan Lincoln, Evan Jager and many more have all made their mark on flat events and/or marathons. That's right, Bob Schul was once a steeplechaser who couldn't hack it! Bruce Bickford couldn't cut it then switched to the 10k and became the World's top 10k runner in 1985 -- the last American to rank #1 in that event.

Throughout history steeplechasers have had an impact in many events, internationally and on the US scene.

Roelants, Keino, Jipcho, Rono, Garderud, Bayi, Lopes, Malinowski, Bedford, Dixon, Kiptanui, Koech, Cherono, Tanui.

Bayi started off as a steepler, switched to the easier events and set two WRs (1500, mile) then went back to the steeple.

Jurgan Straub was a steeplechaser, then switched to the 1500 for Olympic silver in 1980 (splitting up Coe and Ovett). Lopes was a steeplechaser, then went for the easy pickings in the 10k and marathon.

And let's not forget about the inimitable Steve Jones, who started out as a steeplechaser, became world class at 5/10 then terrorized everyone when he switched to the marathon.

do you even hurdle bro? wrote:

There is an extremely strong correlation between being a good distance runner and being a good steepler. There really isn't anything that would rule out a good distance runner from being a good steepler, .

My expert guesstimate is that the correlation is low.

malmo wrote:

The best steeplechasers in the world are very tiny men who adapt well to the herky-jerky improvisational nature of the event.

Those athletes are ones who tend not to be "rhythm runners." Rhythm runners tend to do very poor in the steeplechase because of the event's herky-jerky nature.

So would cross country be a better indicator of steeplechase? Or at least guys who like hills?

Height. Hurdling ability. Mental attitude to deal with the risks involved and enjoy the mix of a race with hurdles/barriers vs. a flat race.

talent for getting one's leg over

Malmo has many good points, but I will also add that decent flexibility helps.

Athletic: can run a respectable 300 or 400 hurdle time. Most "distance runners" can't.

Your mile time is better than your 5K time or you run very close to equivalent times for 1500/5K. You are a miler who can even drop down and perform in a low-pro 800, but can also run a solid 5k. You have range.

You are a decent CC runner.

The running styles differ, but steeplers are usually tougher than nails and willing to go to the well every time they race. IMO - the steeple is the toughest race there is on the track. No contest. Steeplers have my utmost respect.

My 2 cents:

Good reactions and reasonable athleticism.

As noted already, NOT being a rhythm runner.

Better at cross than track (one indicator you're not a rhythm runner).

Willingness to put in technical work sufficient to lead with either leg without wasting a lot of energy. Wall drills, walk overs, skip overs, alternate leg drills, water jumps into the long jump pit, etc.

Fast enough to run at least 8:40 flat 3000 (men) or 10:40 (women)... the difficulty of clearing the barriers efficiently goes up as you slow down.

Willingness to just run at the barrier and not slow down as you wait to 'see' the trigger point and know which leg will come up. (see point above about technical practice).

And as noted (at least in my case), not fast enough for the 1500 and not good at the sustained rhythm running needed for the 5000. Though I take Malmo's point that this is less true at the world class level.

Malmo, good cross-country runners make good steeplers.....along the lines you mentioned of runners who can adjust their rythmn.

Although they may not posess speed, they have a natural gymnastic ability.....and an affinity for hurdling BARRIERS.

Prime example of this is Michael Karst (WG), who was a natural steepler in my book. As was the Brit (Andy Something) who recently died.

Wladimir Cierpinski (EG) started as a steepler.

Sid Sink (BGSU) was also a great steepler. Mel Brodt @ BGSU would have the team (including Wottle) do drills; run 1st half of workout; do drills; do 2nd half of workout; finish with drills.

That is inline with your theory about disrupting the rythmn to create better runners.

IMHO, the greatest steepler EVER was Kip Keino (Kenya). Even as a miler, he was constantly tweaking the tempo of his races....particularly against Ryun.

Keino didn't just win Munich.....he won it easily; nobody has stepped on each barrier so effectively.

Malmo, how say u?

The biggest thing is mental. Not being afraid of falling or doing the water jump. There are tons of runners who could be great steelers, but they're afraid of the event and it's high risk of falling.

I know the other poster was joking, but not being good enough for the 1500 or 5k is also a big contributing factor to people doing the steeple.

Physical traits would be:

Good flexibility and hurdle form

Be able to accelerate well

Start and stoping during a race

General athletic ability

Being able to grind a slow pace, 70s for a 3k is slow, but the last two laps of a steeple at that pace is gonna feel horrible

Reservoir Tip wrote:

The ideal steepler: slim build, thin calves, kinky hair, dark skin, eats a lot of ugali...

You just described Lisa Aguilar (forget her married name).

Lisa won the AZ state 300 meter hurdles in high school.

Malmo - please list the "very tiny men" who have historically been the best steeplers, particularly in the US. What height is tiny? 5'2", 5'3", 5'6"?

I would not include Rono (WR), Garderud (WR), Malinowski, Gregorek, Marsh, Brown, or any of the 100 others who have plied their trade over barriers in the last 40 years. All of them were at least 5'10" or taller - particularly Brown and Gregorek, both of whom were over 6'.

Malmo, you contradict yourself. First you say there is a very low correlation between distance running ability and steeple ability, then you list a bunch of steeplers that were also excellent at distance running. Which is it?

It makes no sense to suggest that ability at 1500, 5k etc doesn't correlate to ability at the steeple. If that were true, we wouldn't see so many steeplers run very close to the same amount of time behind their open 3k times over the barriers.

As far as barriers versus steeples, just because you choose to abbreviate "steeple barriers" to just barriers and I choose to call them steeples doesn't mean anything. If I choose to call them steeples while running sub 830, that is my prerogative. Maybe you've coached people faster than me, but that doesn't mean I am clueless.

1500/5k tweener with enough athletic ability to learn how to hurdle

eurodonkey wrote:

Traditionally, being not quite fast enough to make the team at 5000 or 1500 ;-)

This.

Perfect example is Jager:

Probably currently ~4th - 6th best 5k runner in the US on most days (and he popped a 13:02)..so slightly on the outside looking in.

Put him in the steeple, he's AR holder.

More than likely, Rupp, Lagat, Lomong could break the steeple record.

Brono calls BS wrote:

I would not include Rono (WR), Garderud (WR), Malinowski, Gregorek, Marsh, Brown, or any of the 100 others who have plied their trade over barriers in the last 40 years. All of them were at least 5'10" or taller - particularly Brown and Gregorek, both of whom were over 6'.

Rip Van Winkle, let's see, you pick the tallest runners you could think of from 30-40 years ago, and determine that THEY are representative of the whole? You go one more and put heel lifts on Henry Rono (5-7). Nice.

While you were asleep there have been literally HUNDREDS of tiny little Kenyans dominate the steeplechase. Even among them, the taller ones are also tiny little waifs who have to run around the shower stall just to get wet. the tiny little elephant in the living room, so to speak.

Since you've decided to cherry pick the tallest steeplechaser you could think of, I've decided to show just a few of the athletes you've chosen to occlude by blinders.

5-7 Jipcho

5-8 Keino

5-7 Rono

5-8 Karst

5-9 Diemer

5-9 Croghan

5-8 Meyer

5-7 Munyala

5-8 Campos

5-9 Glans

5-8 Baumbartl

5-9 Addison

5-7 Munyala

5-8 Fava

5-7 Davies