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New Mexico, Notre Dame and maybe Oregon and Washington stand out as underranked.
What does Butler have this year to get the 3-spot ahead of Indiana and Central Michigan?
No University of Maryland?
I don't understand why Columbia gets no respect. Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell and Brown all ahead of CU? Lets take a look at their Ivy record at HEPS the last 7 years...
1997- 2nd (Princeton #1)
1998- 3rd (Princeton #1, Dartmouth #2)
1999- 4th (Princeton #1, Dartmouth #2, Penn #3)
2000- 3rd (Dartmouth #1, Princeton #2)
2001- 4th (Dartmough #1, Princeton #2, Brown #3)
2002- 2nd (Dartmouth #1)
2003- 2nd (Brown #1)
Cornell was 2nd to last, 2nd to last, last the past 3 years, all well behind CU.
Yale was 6th, last, 3rd the last 3 years... all behind Columbia.
The last 2 years Columbia was 7 points behind Dartmouth and then beat Dartmouth by 21 points last year.
Brown had a nice team last year, but CU was only 9 points behind them and have lost to them only 1 other time in the last 6 years.
Throw out Princeton since they're not in the same Region, and its clear that Darmouth and CU are the class of the Ivy's within the NE region for nearly 3/4 of a dacade.
If they're going by last year, Brown should be the only team ahead of CU in the pre-season polls. If they go by history, than Dartmouth should be the only team ahead of CU in the pre-season polls.
As always, Columbia gets the shaft despite great and consistent Ivy League performances. Not to mention 1/3 of the Individual champions over the last 6 years (Grant and Sundell)
M
If you're beating them, then who gives a damn about rankings?
If you're not getting recruits because your ranking isnt high enough. Then I can see a problem. But I think you guys get a good pull of recruits anyways, right?
Pre-Season Rankings never mean crap anyways, who really things USC is going to be #1 this year? Only reason they are #1 is cause they won last year, even their coach admitted that.
Is Eddy still Asst. Coach at UNM?
MIA wrote:
Is Eddy still Asst. Coach at UNM?
Still?
Never was . . . Henry would never let him near his athletes.
5 Junior Internationals....2 Irish and 3 British.....thats why Butler are ranked there.
In addition....Tom Frazer finished 2nd at the Great lakes regional 5,000m. Olly Laws - 29:11 10km. Gary Blackman - 13:56 5,000m and 8:46 3km steeple. I think that justifies it!
I love General Franko too!
Who is going to post the South Central Region now that Dave Hartman is no longer at TAMU?
Actually, Huh?!?, sorry to break this to you but Eddy does work with UNM runners, as was doing so as late as this past May.
What Columbia did the past 7 years is irrelevant. The only things relevant to this year's rankings are:
1) Last year's performance
2) Who graduated/who is returning
3) New recruits
4) Early season performances (if there have been any so far)
Who cares what happened 7 years ago?
frankthetank,
The point was not that they should be ranked based on the last 7 years, but rather they always get shafted despite consistently being quite good. (Even though previous years should count because that demonstrates a coach's ability to actually get his athletes to perform year in and year out).
However, using your criteria, lets look at how CU did.
Last year they finished 2nd at HEPS to Brown. They beat Yale, Dartmouth, and Cornell.
At Regionals, they lost to Yale and Brown. So Yale beat them once, they beat Yale once (in "big" meets).
Cornell was last last year at HEPS and 8 teams behind them at Regionals.
Dartmouth is always good (as mentioned previously) but if you don't want to take into account history, I guess the success of the coach has no merit and they should be evaluated solely on who graduated, recruits, etc, and in that case, they are no better nor worse off than CU (lose a HEPS champ in Schoemacker, just like CU lost a HEPS champ in Sundell).
Anyway, the bottom line is this, Columbia has 3 of the better runners in the Ivy's with Dusen, Groothius and Boylen-Pett. They prove themselves time and time again. They had as good if not a better recruiting class than any other team, and Willy has provem (yes, in the past) to be a coach who gets his teams ready.
Is that a better analysis still supporting the same claim but using your criteria?
How can you say that UNM is underranked?
Look how they ran this week at the Kachina Classic:
Place Name School Time
1 Aucencio Martinez Adams State 22:28
2 Mircea Bogdan UTEP 22:34
3 Stephen Samuei UTEP 22:42
4 Josh Merrick Adams State 22:47
5 Jesus Solis Adams State 22:59
6 Mohamed Aden Adams State 23:02
7 Ben Ortega UNM 23:16
8 Caremon Clarke UNM 23:16
9 Brad Regan Adams State 23:19
10 Reid Ellis Adams State 23:27
11 Nick Martinez UNM 23:42
12 Steven Martinez UNM 23:43
13 Joseph Garcia UNM 23:54
14 Nate Clem UNM 23:58
15 Lee Chavez Unattached 24:00:00
16 Marco Arriaga Adams State 24:00:00
17 Juan Ortega UNM 24:08:00
18 Darren Calvert Unattached 24:19:00
19 Nick Lara Adams State 24:21:00
20 Josh Sifurntes WNMU 24:22:00
21 Henry Valdez NMSU 24:23:00
22 Ricky Ontiveros UTEP 24:23:00
23 Daniel Abeyta UNM 24:32:00
24 Marco Munuz Unattached 24:38:00
25 Chris Bratton Unattached 24:41:00
26 Joe Munoz EPCC 24:44:00
27 Aduifi Torrecillas Unattached 24:50:00
28 Brad Pulman Unattached 24:50:00
29 Nick Johnson Adams State 24:51:00
30 Santos Contreras NMSU 24:55:00
31 Michael Deason Unattached 25:14:00
32 Frank Hemmingway UNM 25:15:00
33 Mike Smiel Unattached 25:20:00
34 Daniel Waldo WNMU 25:21:00
35 Trent Deming UTEP 25:22:00
36 Louis Matinez WNMU 25:23:00
37 Ryan Rios College of the SW 25:45:00
38 Jason Atakinson Unattached 25:48:00
39 Dillon Rose Unattached 25:49:00
40 Saul Shahanga EPCC 26:01:00
41 Corey White Unattached 26:08:00
42 Aaron Tiger Adams State 26:17:00
43 Mike Trujillo Unattached 26:23:00
44 Armando Adame EPCC 26:26:00
45 Jason Garcia Unattached 26:43:00
46 Erik Coleman UNM 26:46:00
47 Chris West NMSU 26:46:00
48 Jesse Abrams EPCC 27:09:00
49 Jon Williams NMSU 27:10:00
50 Alex Calzada UTEP 27:18:00
51 Hector Ramirez EPCC 27:21:00
52 Dominick Duncan Unattached 27:36:00
53 Marco Alcaco UTEP 27:43:00
54 Uriel Carrillo EPCC 27:44:00
55 Mike Berlyn WNMU 28:28:00
56 Shane DeLaTorre WNMU 29:08:00
57 Niholes Nolan Unattached 29:16:00
58 Anthony Lamert UTEP 29:17:00
59 Justin Mapula NMSU 29:17:00
60 Scott Romero Unattached 29:37:00
61 Nolan Blount Sul Ross State 30:22:00
62 Tyler Martin College of the SW 31:15:00
63 Francisco Rodiguez EPCC 31:38:00
64 Juan Salgado Sul Ross State 32:27:00
65 Pual Cataldi Sul Ross State 34:57:00
66 Steve Ramirez Sul Ross State 36:06:00
67 Lucas Baca Unattached 38:50:00
Team Score
1 Adam State 25
2 New Mexico 51
3 UTEP 77
4 EPCC 130
5 NMSU 132
5 WNMU 132
Sure Kiptoo or Gonzales didn't run but UNM still lost to a Division 2 program. I say UNM is overrated.
Yes, thank you.
Adams State isn't your typical D2 school. Ortega has finished around 80th before at nationals. Gonzales is an individual contender and Kiptoo could be the top frosh and an all-american contender. That's the makings of a solid team. Of course, they train like animals and face a lot of injury trouble, so they could fall apart. But with a 1-2 like that and a supporting 3rd man, they should be ranked better in my opinion.
For Butler, Blackman is done, but they have recruited a 3:44 british guy.
Who have IU and Notre Dame got to suggest they should be ahead of Butler?
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