The "second wind" anaerobic threshold?

Nothing?

the reason you don't hear it from non-elite runners is because elite runners warm-up. The "second wind" comes when your cells are finally properly warmed up and your body becomes comfortable. Elite runners warm-up and thus are at that stage when they start the race. And going with that, elite runners don't ever really huff and puff themselves, anyone with any sort of real training doesn't huff and puff really.

You could also see it as a bit of a runners high, a lot of the time, the 3rd mile in your 5k isn't the fastest, but it feels like the fastest because your so amped to get out there and kick.

It still happens with elite runners, they just don't marvel at it because they are used to it. It seems more remarkable when you are first starting out because the difference in feeling is like night and day and it's the first time you feel like you are actually fit in any way.

Getting your second wind usually just means you started too fast, slowed down, and finally got onto pace.

ataglance wrote:

Getting your second wind usually just means you started too fast, slowed down, and finally got onto pace.

No

hey wrote:

the reason you don't hear it from non-elite runners is because elite runners warm-up. The "second wind" comes when your cells are finally properly warmed up and your body becomes comfortable. Elite runners warm-up and thus are at that stage when they start the race. And going with that, elite runners don't ever really huff and puff themselves, anyone with any sort of real training doesn't huff and puff really.

You could also see it as a bit of a runners high, a lot of the time, the 3rd mile in your 5k isn't the fastest, but it feels like the fastest because your so amped to get out there and kick.

I agree. I am only huffing and puffing because I am coming off a month long break from running. The other times I have taken brakes, I have noticed the same thing. I really was asking more of a question about one's energy systems. When you are getting in shape, your body get's the hint that it needs to start focusing on one aspect, and when it gets in that groove, the "second wind" occurs.

Here is a follow-up question: does the "second wind" stimulus response occur in more advanced instances? I.E. training for a certain pace? I have heard Canova say that he trains his athletes for their goal pace, not incrementally progressive race pace. In other words, if I want to run a 15 min 5k, should I train for efficiency at 15 min pace, or start by training for 17 min pace, then 16 min pace, then 15 min pace?

I have a majority of slow twitch muscles and took at least 30 minutes of running to warm up. I always ran for at least 30 minutes before racing a marathon.

Orville Atkins wrote:

I have a majority of slow twitch muscles and took at least 30 minutes of running to warm up. I always ran for at least 30 minutes before racing a marathon.

Interesting. Did you find that (not in the case of a warmup to a race) that you warmed up in a shorter amount of time by running harder, or did it always take that long to warm up?

It takes me 20 minute to warmup. I remember once hearing that running for a short time at aerobic threshold is the best way to warm up for a race. I seem to remember Jerry's guys did this. The idea is that it "buffers" the anaerobic system. It makes sense to me, because, as we all know, the second interval is always easier than the first. Maybe our energy systems become "awake," and that makes it easier to perform

The harder the training had been, the slower the warm up pace at the start. Faster running did not work. (Technically I never ran fast in my life.) Often Coach Igloi had us do about 10 shakeups after the warm. Some times every second or third one was at a faster tempo.

Since I did not run a race for time in marathons but ran to win or place well, I had to warm up well to hold the pace at the beginning of the race.

I remember that after a couple of miles Coach drove up beside me and said 50, or was it a 100, yards hard speed.

Excuse me Mr. Atkins, but are you saying that you were actually coached by the legendary Mihaly Igloi? If so, that is amazing! I would love to hear about some of the workouts he had you do, or if you have any interesting anecdotes. This is assuming you have the time. Amazing!

I have the same experience. Sometimes it comes half to three-quarters through a steady-state threshold run, which makes me think that you might have something there with the "second wind=threshold" concept. I wonder if this second wind is something that should be looked at as a critical point for training? Should someone change the kind of run they are doing, after they reach this point? Should they try to do some race pace stuff to get their energy systems used to the system taxation that occurs specifically at race pace? Just a thought. A second wind is something I have often experienced, but just thought it was a "runner's high," rather than a biochemical change in blood, or what have you

I trained with Coach Mihaly Igoi for about 20 months in the mid 1960s. I have written a lot about it on Letsrun.com and on the legends lounge of Tracktalk.net. The Igloi thread on letsrun is 16 pages and Bob Schul has posted twice. There is also a post by Gerry Lindgren (friendly jogger) too, I think.

By putting my name and Igloi's into google with a plus sign you should be able to call those threads up.

I also trained for 5 years with Coach Fred Foot, Bruce Kidd, Bill Crothers, Ergas Leps and David Bailey of The East York Track Club in Toronto for 5 years. It was mostly interval training.

Orville

Mr. Bro Jangles wrote:

For the first part, we are huffing and puffing. After a while, we suddenly stop huffing and puffing, and feel that we are able to continue on with no distress to our lungs or breathing.

I remember when I was in middle school PE class didn't need a sense of pace because I could always go out at 2 lap pace and get a second wind to finish the mile. Yeah that doesn't happen anymore. That's what I call a real bona fide second wind, it isn't the I didn't warm up and felt better 30 minutes into the run stuff.

What actually causes a "second wind?" neuromuscular systems? Bioenergetic systems? Cardiovascular, oxygen related systems? Perhaps a combination? Obviously, when someone is running, they have multiple systems working together, but the "second wind" is a specific phenomena. It seems to be breathing related, but maybe the body begins using more glycogen, and then becomes less dependent on the lungs? Something like that, perhaps? Any exercise scientists have any comments?

It's called steady state in physiology.

I understand the term, but what about a "second wind" is steady? There is obviously a change of some kind that occurs.