Hall wouldn't be #1 if this was the case. And i don't mean people who convert over to run for America or other countries, i mean American born people of Kenyan descent. Has a study ever been done testing the endurance of kenyans in America? Ethiopians as well?
And yes i know this study has been lead IN ETHIOPIA and Kenya, but i mean decendants here.
There is a much, much smaller pool of people born in the U.S. from parents born in Kenya, Ethiopia, Eritria, etc. First, the parents would have to be pre-disposed to being strong distance runners. Most of the top Kenyan distance runners are from the Rift Valley (I forget the tribe name). Just being Kenyan, (or just being from the Rift Valley), doesn't make you a strong distance runner. So, just being a second generation Kenyan immigrant in the U.S. doesn't make you a strong distance runner. Children in the U.S. have a lot more opportunities for recreational/athletic activities (soccer, etc.) than those in Kenya. So there's a cultural factor for second generation Kenyans in the U.S. in addition to a parental lineage factor.
The effect that the OP is trying to tease out is 'natural advantage' after controlling for culture/economics/etc. If there is a 'natural advantage' why is it not seen in second generation east-african-americans? I don't know, is it seen?
The second poster has a point, we're talking about 1. a small subset within a specific few countries that 2. happen to have immigrated to the USA (or any western country for that matter). This would probably make a robust, academic, data-driven analysis difficult. So let's throw it to the wolves on LRC!
Have you ever worn potatoes for shoes? They make you look Dutch but you will smell bad in a week.
Stud Kenyan athletes tend to stay at home. Nerd/loser Kenyans go to America.
Kenyans who are here came for different reasons..NOT RUNNING FOR USA...they come here solely for scholarships....not for long lasting running.
"Kenyans" aren't natural runners. Kalenjins produce natural runners, with a handful of other talents coming from Kikuyu (Sammy Wanjiru), Turkana (Paul Ereng), and Masai (Paul Tergat) tribes.
Kenya also doesn't have the diaspora that Ethiopia does. You will find a number of 1st generation Ethiopian-American and Eritrean-Americans performing very well in high school distance running.
I worked with a Kenyan girl in college who could run 5 blocks.
Kenyanppl wrote:
Hall wouldn't be #1 if this was the case. And i don't mean people who convert over to run for America or other countries, i mean American born people of Kenyan descent. Has a study ever been done testing the endurance of kenyans in America? Ethiopians as well?
And yes i know this study has been lead IN ETHIOPIA and Kenya, but i mean decendants here.
Who is Bernard Lagat anyway?
Paul Tergat is not Maasai, he is from Keiyo which is a sub tribe of Kalenjin. Just a correction!
"Train Hard, Win Easy the Kenyan Way" says he's from the Tugen tribe.
Rudisha is Masai. Wanjiru's father was rumored to be Kalenjin but this was never substantiated.
Your assumption is based on that all Kenyans and all Ethiopians (or East Africans) are fast. Secondly, being born of the perfect distance running pedigree at sea level may mean you have the genes but not the environment. If you think sport is all genes or all environment then this conversation is useless.
Now, on related note, I personally know many amateur Kenyans who came to US for college who can win a local 5k with little or no training.
Environment has nothing to do with running success.
Too many doping controls
Who knows. There are so many other factors.
Rural Kenyan kids are active. They don't have cars in the family, they get around on foot. Often travelling quite some distance. They do this for years and years. Distance running is a big deal, so lots of kids aspire to be runners. They don't have money for junk food. A lot of the best end up around Iten and Eldoret, so you have a whole load of good runners to train with.
Kipsang used 40 people to help pace him during his training for the WR. You probably couldn't find 40 people in the whole of the US who are capable of being much use to him as pacers, much less who live reasonably close and would be willing to do it in return for being bought lunch.
You have to understand statistics and probabilities. If the average Kenyan would be at the 80th percentile compared to the average American in running potential. And Americans outnumber American Kenyan descendants 10,000 to 1, than Kenyan descendants would not have a strong presence in American running performance.
train hard win easy wrote:
"Train Hard, Win Easy the Kenyan Way" says he's from the Tugen tribe.
Tugen is a sub-tribe of the Kalenjin.
Tegla Loroupe's people are Pokot; Paul Ereng a Turkana; Patrick Makau is a Kamba; David Rudisha, Billy and Gregory Konchellah are all Maasai; Hellen Obiri, Isabella Ochichi and Yobes Ondieki come from the Kisii tribe; John Ngugi, Sammy Wanjiru, Catherine Ndereba are from the Kikuyu tribe. There's actually a bit more diversity than you would expect, but Kalenjin's do form the majority of elite runners.
Also, Kenya's Northern counties are populated by the Borana tribe, ethnically and linguistically part of the Oromo people of Ethiopia who produce the bulk of their athletes, yet no one from the Kenyan side of the border has ever become world class. Nor has Kenya's sizeable Somali community produced a Mo Farah or and Abdi Bile.
Trying to attribute their success to ethnicity and dismissing the hard work these runners put in diminishes their accomplishments.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Kenya also doesn't have the diaspora that Ethiopia does. You will find a number of 1st generation Ethiopian-American and Eritrean-Americans performing very well in high school distance running.
True. There have been no waves of emigration from Kenya like you've had with Ethiopians, Eritreans, Somalis, Nigerians, Ghanaians, Senegalese etc. You will not find little Nairobis, Mombasas, or Eldorets in London, NYC or LA. Most Kenyans who go to the US, including Obama's dad, go for a University education. Many (like me) return after 4 years of college or grad school, some (like Bernard Lagat) choose to stay. So, if you want Kenyan food in Europe or America, you'd have to look very hard. I personally went to France for grad school and could count the number of Kenyans I knew on one hand, yet there were lots of Ethiopians, Eritreans, Somalis and West Africans everywhere. They're many enough to form their own communities have their own areas, restaurants, shops etc.
El Keniano wrote:
Trying to attribute their success to ethnicity and dismissing the hard work these runners put in diminishes their accomplishments.
Yep, and so is the Keiyo sub-tribe. Paul Tergat is part of Tugen sub-tribe, not Keiyo.
What many people don't think about is the paltry prize money allows more Kenyans (and Ethiopians) who can "afford" to train and race full-time. A larger talent pool of harder working (and recovering) athletes means more and faster world-class runners. The higher cost of living in America doesn't allow as many to do this (regardless of heritage), unless they have a situation and the talent that makes it possible. Most though are pursuing education and joining the workforce, just like other Americans.