Train me to sub 16?

' I ran 16:50 for 5K in HS (in XC), with 50 MPW training'

Do the training you did back then

Then find a running track

There really isn't any bad advice here, but I don't think you need to run 75/week to run 1559.

I ran 1545 and the 3k/10k/half equivalents on 50 mpw. This might not be enough for you, but if running under 16 on the track is your goal, then you need to get used to running faster than 77/lap.

You, unlike me, have some decent 800 speed, so you might want to focus on 1k repeats @/faster than race pace.

Also, do you have any weight to lose? When I went from 18-15xx it was partly because I realized at 6' tall with a thin frame, 170lbs was too much to run fast.

In general, try to limit the alcohol/empty calories.

"Also, do you have any weight to lose? When I went from 18-15xx it was partly because I realized at 6' tall with a thin frame, 170lbs was too much to run fast.

In general, try to limit the alcohol/empty calories."

For us amateurs and especially Masters level runners I think the weight issue is a big one.

Obviously you need to do something to do some stuff to get your legs moving and I wouldn't really worry about hitting big weekly numbers for a 5k. I'd be more worried about getting in my quality work, the weekly mileage will take care of itself.

Bdubs wrote:

There really isn't any bad advice here, but I don't think you need to run 75/week to run 1559.

I ran 1545 and the 3k/10k/half equivalents on 50 mpw. This might not be enough for you, but if running under 16 on the track is your goal, then you need to get used to running faster than 77/lap.

You, unlike me, have some decent 800 speed, so you might want to focus on 1k repeats @/faster than race pace.

Also, do you have any weight to lose? When I went from 18-15xx it was partly because I realized at 6' tall with a thin frame, 170lbs was too much to run fast.

In general, try to limit the alcohol/empty calories.

This is an interesting post, thank you. Seems that the two schools of thought are higher mileage, and lower mileage. But I think what I'd like to know is how I get those 1k's down to past race pace. There's no way I could hit 77/lap, even in HS. How do I work down to the faster paces?

53/208 tells me you have plenty of speed...77 shouldn't feel fast for 2.5 laps.

Try 5x1k with 3 minutes rest. If you can't get down to 312 per repeat, you have bigger problems, ie you're farther away from 1559 than I think you are; and then you need to work on general fitness.

A workout like that will also teach you how to pace.

The first time I ran under 16 was on a track...my fastest lap was 75.5, my slowest was 76.9. If I had gone out in 220, I would have died.

Bdubs wrote:

53/208 tells me you have plenty of speed...77 shouldn't feel fast for 2.5 laps.

Try 5x1k with 3 minutes rest. If you can't get down to 312 per repeat, you have bigger problems, ie you're farther away from 1559 than I think you are; and then you need to work on general fitness.

A workout like that will also teach you how to pace.

The first time I ran under 16 was on a track...my fastest lap was 75.5, my slowest was 76.9. If I had gone out in 220, I would have died.

In my original post, I said I had recently run around 17:50. So the times I've run in the past are a little ways away. I could definitely split ~54 right now, and probably under 2:10 though.

Thoughts: you have good speed, just need to increase aerobic fitness. You need some mileage, but it doesn't have to be absurdly high. 50-60mpw will probably be fine for you, and you can drop it into the 40s when you're peaking.

The plans offered by others are good. Start out with a tempo run and a fartlek or intervals each week, and try to do as much interval work as possible at 5:00-5:10 pace (your goal 5K pace). For you, I would focus on tempo runs more than short repeats, but don't neglect either. Even though you obviously have good speed, you need to keep up with it. So do some 200s and 400s at mile pace every 10-14 days. But your bread and butter should be long intervals at current 5k pace and tempo runs.

Just so you know, I ran 16:00 last spring, and I have never broken 60 seconds for a 400, and my mile PR is 4:46. I am more of an endurance monster, so I focused on getting my speed up with a lot of short repeats. You have the opposite problem: you have the speed but need the endurance; hence the mileage and tempo runs along with the intervals. You have the ability, now get to work and show us what you can do!

Thanks for the post. I am running a 5KM xc race tomorrow. This is interesting, you're suggesting a lot more work at goal 5k pace, whereas I've been going off of VDOT paces. Tomorrow will give me a better gauge of where I'm at, but you mean i need to work down, correct? As in, next week I don't continue doing tempos at 6:10 pace, and start doing 1ks as close to 5:10 pace as I can? Hope to hear back from ya.

Bump!

ran a 5k today, didn't do so hot. don't have a time, but it was slow, in the 18's. course was tough, really felt the lack of base. I think i'm going to shut down for a couple days, and build.

should i just take these base training plans and run them until winter? or the end of winter?

Bump!

Ramanujan wrote:

Thanks for the post. I am running a 5KM xc race tomorrow. This is interesting, you're suggesting a lot more work at goal 5k pace, whereas I've been going off of VDOT paces. Tomorrow will give me a better gauge of where I'm at, but you mean i need to work down, correct? As in, next week I don't continue doing tempos at 6:10 pace, and start doing 1ks as close to 5:10 pace as I can? Hope to hear back from ya.

I believe the bulk of your long interval training should be at your current VDOT pace (which is roughly your current 5K pace), but do some shorter stuff at goal pace, and as your fitness progresses, your long interval pace and your goal pace should converge. So when I said you need to do as much work as possible at goal 5K pace, that is assuming that your current fitness is around 16:00.

I wouldn't worry too much about the XC race. I was never able to run a fast XC race, even when in 16-flat shape. Having a good base of miles will help though, so if you feel like right now you need to back off and just log mileage, then you could start working out in a month or two and try to run fast in indoor or outdoor track season.

Yeah, I think I'm going to back off and build to 70 miles a week. I think just solid, consistent base training would help me go sub 16 on the track. I read that Daniels promotes one tempo a week. I'm also going to add strides to the end of most runs. Should I do a tempo a week? Current tempo pace is 6:15, should I lower this or work on going longer at the pace? And what pace should most of my runs be done at? I usually hover around 7:30.

Yeah, I think I'm going to back off and build to 70 miles a week. I think just solid, consistent base training would help me go sub 16 on the track. I read that Daniels promotes one tempo a week. I'm also going to add strides to the end of most runs. Should I do a tempo a week? Current tempo pace is 6:15, should I lower this or work on going longer at the pace? And what pace should most of my runs be done at? I usually hover around 7:30.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you ran slower than 1830, you're a long way off.

You say you think you could run under 210 for an 800 right now. If that's the case and you're in decent shape at all, you really should be able to run 520-540 pace on a moderate xc course. Of course, the length could have been 3.3 miles, but that doesn't sound like the case.

Perhaps you went out too fast?

One key to breaking minute barriers (17, 16 etc...) is to understand pace. Your miles should not vary by more than 5-10 seconds from your fastest to your slowest.

One thing people are leaving out is breaking 17, which I don't htink you've done. Before you can think about 16, you really should be able to run 1659...yourself.

I think you should keep racing this fall...it won't hurt you and you will get smarter at even pacing and maximizing what fitness you have.

Well the course was easily the toughest I've run. The first place finisher is a 14:30 5k guy, and he ran 16:21 on the day. 2nd place has run 50:28 for 10 miles, and he was 16:30. I'm not really weighing the course too much, also it was the first XC race I've done in a while. I ran 17:50 a month ago on a track just to see where I was at, and that was with literally no interval work or base work.