How to justify competitive running at the amateur/hobbyjogger level?

I would request why o why to respond to this post. Can he see that the Olympic champ could ask him the same question that he is asking older slower runners?

Conundrum wrote:

Have you ever run a huge event that included the very best runners (many Olympic winners) from around the world?

Imagine the top two runners ask you why you train so hard and race in an event that you know that you could never even place in. You explain that your goal is to be in the top 75. They think that is a silly reason.

You ask a much slower runner in the race why he trains and races. He says he wants to be in the top 1000. You think that is a silly reason.

He asks an even slower runner why he trains and races so hard. The even slower runner says he wants to be in the top 5000. He thinks that's a silly reason.

Do you get it now? Its all relative.

We made plans to kiss the sun at nignt. Hopeless dreamers, hopeless types...

Thanks to this post, I had a look at Conundrum's thread and especially your posts on it.

If I'm reading you correctly, at your best you were a 15 flat 5k guy and now you're well into your 30s and struggling to run that pace and wondering what it's all about.

Well, you know what - you'll have to decide that for yourself.

But going on and on about how "the clock never lies" is really not the point. No, the clock doesn't lie, but as many people have already pointed out, 15 flat isn't competitive with the best in the world, and slow old guy that I am, I've actually won a couple of races when the field was sufficiently weak.

Conundrum, I wil get to your specific question in just a bit. Let me first address the Ed Whitlock case because I think it actually serves my point well.

Why do you think we celebrate Ed Whitlock. Not because he's some 80 + year old dude still kicking strong in races. We celebrate him because he's a national record-holder, that's how ego-involved we are. Why aren't we talking about the 80 + year old dudes who are running 3 hour half-marathons? Because sport places an emphasis on how you do relative to others in your same division.

Now, about the Olympic athlete scenario.If we were to go back 10 years when I was running 15min and an Olympic athlete would ask me, why are you working so hard to finish 100th in a national calibre race? I would have said - "I enjoy finding out how fast I can get and right now my PR is 15:07 on the roads. Having others around me who are just as fast and faster would help carry me and give invaluablke experience."

So I return to my original point. Running "competitively" makes sense when you're still on that journey towards discovering your personal limits. It just so happens that sometimes that "personal limit" is good enough to win your local 5K.

why o why? wrote:

I've been thinking more and more about this. What's the point?

What is your reason for not just adopting a fitness lifetyle where running "for time or place" is not a goal. And would you still enter races or go out with a watch on a daily basis if that were the case?

For me personally, the "fitness lifestyle", "getting healthy", "losing weight", "getting ripped", etc. approach was never motivating enough.

For about 10 years after college, I would start up a new routine, and stick with it anywhere from 5-6 weeks to 3-4 months. Then, I'd get busy with something else, or lose motivation, and miss weeks or months.

As soon as I started focusing on lowering my running PRs, I was much more consistent. I began looking forward to my workouts, instead of "having" to do them.

Once I learned that the big improvements come with years of consistency, I was able to put together 5 years of continuous training (interrupted only by the occasional injury, not lack of motivation). I trained at a much higher level, and enjoyed the experience much more than the start & stop training the previous 10 years.

Ironically, focusing on PRs improved my health & fitness much more than when I was solely focused on "health & fitness".

Also, I developed much better & more meaningful relationships with a small group of runners during the 5 years I focused on lowering my PRs.

I can not say that for the 10 years when I focused on a "fitness lifestyle".

Cool - now we're getting somewhere. Indeed, yes, sometimes your personal limit is good enough to win your local 5k. And sometimes it isn't. And sometimes it's good enough to win you age group. And sometimes it isn't. And look, if I had PRs from my younger years that were way out of reach, I don't know how I'd feel about trying to go hard, but for now I'm "lucky" enough that my lifetime bests are relatively recent [because I was so bad when I was young] and they're not completely out of reach [although I may in fact never better them.]

Bottom line: sounds like you need a break from racing and a reset when you hit an age where you feel like you can define a new set of goals.

why o why,

shedding skin you show your beauty scars

Don't forget me or who you are

You know this don't feel right

Who knows what we feel?

I just met you I can read your thoughts

What they tell me is what I want

why o why wrote:

Why do you think we celebrate Ed Whitlock. Not because he's some 80 + year old dude still kicking strong in races. We celebrate him because he's a national record-holder, that's how ego-involved we are. Why aren't we talking about the 80 + year old dudes who are running 3 hour half-marathons? Because sport places an emphasis on how you do relative to others in your same division.

This is why many people have mentioned winning their age groups or improving their age-graded records as motivations for training hard. They are comparing themselves relative to others in their same division not to what they have done in the past in their physical prime.

Why o why,

Your thread has over 90 hits. "Why o why' is a now poster with some board cred, Whether one agrees or disagrees with your point, Why o why has has become a force a known entity.

You can't go back to the anonymous change my handle for every thread poster. Step up to the plate and be the Why o why that your alter ego demands. Don't deny your fate.

For now on when you post, be Why o Why. Be true to yourself!

Congrats for findng your handle. Many posters here never do.

Conundrum, this was never about winning an argument or becoming some known force. You're probably joking, but I think this thread was a good exercise in self-reflection. Running feeds into our ego at all levels. Sometimes I envy the people who can enjoy running for its own sake. I am much too competitive a person. Running completely absorbs me when I'm in training/racing mode. For me it's worth it when you see that all the hard work is taking you somewhere. I'm not the kind of person that will ever quit running. But I think I can get to the point where I can run for pure pleasure of being in motion and breaking a sweat. It requires less investment and would lead to a more balanced life. I just don't know if I will ENJOY that newly defined activity...because running when you're not in tip-top shape has always felt awkward if not difficult.

When you are at the age where the 7 minute mile feels like the 5 minute mile used to, you will hopefully still enjoy it the same way, and it will still hold some magic. I feel sorry for you if you turn from running to competitive eating just to get a "win".

Even if you're an elite runner, running is relaxing. There's nothing better than heading out for a shakeout like effort when youre in shape and having it be a walk in the park. This is an awesome feeling. Whether you're fast or slow being a runner is just cool. Good for the body, mind and spirit.

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This is an interesting discussion. I question why I still run for "time"? All I can say is that I still enjoy it! I'm significantly slower than I was at 30, but the effort is still the same.

I happen to know that a 4:30 mile at at 27 yo is about the same, performance wise, as a 5:30 mile at 55 yo. So I do get satisfaction from performing near my theoretical limit as I grow older.

And we all care about about how we stack up as runners. It's great to be faster than 2% of all runners (it's noticeable). And if you are faster than 1% that's better and 0.5% that's even better etc. Can we all just admit that we get satisfaction from knowing and demonstrating that we are higher in the pecking order?

OP is right.its very hard to justify all the training and effort that goes into amateur running.And for what?For nothing is the answer.Nobody cares about your pb and if they do its just some jealous amateur.All them miles every day takes it out of you not matter who you are.Interferes with your life.And you can go nowhere or do nothimg because you have another training session 2moro.Its actually laughable at the amateur laughable,the ego's,the way they eye each other enviously and nervously at the start line.For what?A chance of winning the local turkey trot.And not to mention its not recognised by the general public either.Buying all them runners,gear,entry fees etc and all the effort.Nothing wrong with 20 or so miles a week to keep fit but competitive amateur running is clearly not worth it.

ajayxc wrote:

Balian wrote:

With this type of thinking most Golf Courses would go out of business.

And 17 minutes for 5k is top ten locally?

Where do you live? Fayetteville, Arkansas?

I would 17:00 is fairly consistent top 10 locally (that's the Northeast corner or CT and most of RI where I'm living). But I read locally as being a run of the mill 5k on a given weekend, not a major yearly race

In the DFW area there are routinely 30 or more races in a weekend. 17:00 would get you top 2 or 3 nowadays. With overall, male and female, masters, age groups, there are 1000 people a weekend here taking a trophy or medal to work on Monday.

What's the point of any hobby or activity?

Why go fishing? You can buy fish at the grocery 24/7.

Why play music? You're never going to be a rock star.

Why go camping? You have a house or apt.

Why travel? You can see pictures and videos of all that stuff on TV and the net.

Why read? You can watch the movies of most popular books.

Why would you golf? You can play on a video game, and that time would be better spent at work...

You can play that game all day. There is nothing wrong with doing what you like, in fact, that's THE reason to live.

Only dbags bump 2 year old threads for the sake of confusing limited though minded posters.

-0/10

Why not?