Do people honestly think that Micheal Jordan is better than LeBron James?

I firmly believe had Michael Jordan's father not been killed, the Bulls probably would have won 8 or 9 titles.

007run wrote:

I firmly believe had Michael Jordan's father not been killed, the Bulls probably would have won 8 or 9 titles.

Steve Kerr, who actually played on those teams and was critical to their team, strongly disagrees. But what does he know? Some runner on a letsrun message board knows best.

When was this, I can make up something too and say that Dennis Rodman thinks that the bulls could have won 12 in a row if they wanted? You didn't hear that as well?

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

007run wrote:

I firmly believe had Michael Jordan's father not been killed, the Bulls probably would have won 8 or 9 titles.

Steve Kerr, who actually played on those teams and was critical to their team, strongly disagrees. But what does he know? Some runner on a letsrun message board knows best.

Steve Kerr is entitled to his opinion if that is true. But come on, if Jordan had not left for a year to play baseball during his prime, one could reason the Bulls probably would have won 1,2,3, or who knows how many more titles. They essentially lost 2 years because of Jordan's retirement decision. I don't think anyone can calculate the weight of his father's death on Jordan. The fact he could recover from that and still win 3 more titles 2 years later is why he is the greatest ever to play the game. Lebron is great, but Jordan was otherworldly. I'd like to what would happen if Lebron took a year off of playing NBA ball.

Where all you haters at? The silence is DEAFENING. At this age Jordan only had 1 finals appearance. Lebron has 4, along with 2 title wins. Stop drinking the HATORADE!!!

Just to reiterate. At the age of 28 (LeBron's current age) Jordan had ONLY 2 MVPs, ONLY 1 Eastern Conference Title, ONLY 1 Championship compared to Lebron's 4, 4, and 2, respectively.

Can we stop with the LeBron hate?!!!

LeBron James is a great basketball player, but he still has a long way to go to catch up to and pass Michael Jordan as the greatest of all-time.

I don't see how anyone could possibly think LeBron is better than Jordan was, whether you're looking at how dominant they were on the court or how better their teams were with them on it.

Cleveland was just about as bad when James came in as Chicago was when Jordan came in... so a valid point of reference:

In Jordan's first seven healthy years in the league (so yes, I'm not counting 85-86 when he was injured and only played 18 games), Chicago went 412-251 (62.14%) and made the playoffs EVERY year, with this progression: First Round, First Round, Second Round, Semi-Finals, Semi-Finals, NBA CHAMPIONS, NBA CHAMPIONS

In James' first seven years (the only ones he spent with Cleveland), the Cavs went 391-254 (60.62%) and made the playoffs five of the seven years, making the NBA Finals (but not winning the championships) in year 4 and making the Semi-Finals in year 6, but otherwise not advancing past the second round (and never winning a championship).

First 7 years, Jordan and the Bulls > James and the Cavs, despite starting at the same level (39.56% and 38.23% winning percentages the six years before they got to their clubs)

James signed with Miami (along with some other very good players, joining an already good team) before his eighth season in the NBA. Regardless, his teams have not matched what the Jordan-led Bulls accomplished during Jordan's era: through ten years in the NBA, James' teams have gone 607-335 (64.44%) while Jordan's teams went 732-336 (68.54%). Jordan amassed six NBA Championships and made two Semi-Finals, while NEVER missing the playoffs. James has ammased two NBA Championships, made 2 NBA Finals and one other Semi-Final.

Wins and Losses are what matters on the court. And whether or not you witnessed the Jordan era, it's not hard to see that teams with Jordan were better than teams with James. And you can't say that Jordan had talent around him that James doesn't have... Cleveland may not have been loaded every year, but they had many good players. Miami has been loaded with great players that Jordan wasn't around (no, Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen were not any better than Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh, let alone the stars they've added since James signed).

Jordan was the best, and he made his teams the best. James is a fantastic player, but he's not as good as Michael Jordan was.

Summer of Winstrol wrote:

LeBron James is a great basketball player, but he still has a long way to go to catch up to and pass Michael Jordan as the greatest of all-time.

Wanna rethink that, hombre?

watchout wrote:

Cleveland was just about as bad when James came in as Chicago was when Jordan came in... so a valid point of reference:

Not even close to valid. Scottie Pippen vs .... you can't even name the second best player on the Cavs.

Come on dude.

Lebron improved my impression of him last night. I think both these teams, including Lebron, played like champions the whole series. And that is all that could be decided last night: the 2013 NBA champion. I think the heat will mix up their team this offseason: Wade is physically fading, Bosh is emotionally fragile, and Miller and allen are old in NBA terms. I think Lebron will actually perform even better over the years as he gets a more complementary cast. Imagine if he had Duncan in the middle on his team. I think Lebron is so good at so many things that he is still trying to find his identity. I will ultimately judge Lebron over what he accomplishes over his career, not what he is projected to do.

Right now, having seen both he and Jordan play, my eye test says Jordan is the better player. And for what its worth I never liked Jordan or Lebron as a person so I'm as close to neutral as I can get. But maybe my eyes are lying to me and the numbers don't lie, let's see:

Let's look at who Jordan beat just in 1991 playoffs and see if I should reconsider that I think Jordan is the greatest:

1991: Jordan's famous dunk on Ewing and Knicks, Barkley's 76ers, Laimbeer and Isaiah's Pistons, then Magic Johnson & James Worthy of Lakers. Jordan literally ripped the Championship and MVP away from a murderer's row of Hall of Famers all of whom are on the NBA all-time 50 greatest list except Laimbeer. Jordan had to contend with Shaq's Magic and the Celtics Bird, McHale, Parrish and Atlanta's Moses Malone in regular season Eastern Conference.

1992: Jordan over Clyde Drexler (NBA all-time 50) in finals

of the NBA 50 greatest players only 9 made it without a championship to their record: of those Barkley, Ewing, and Karl Malone and Stockton had to suffer against MJ. The others are Gervin, Maravich, Thurmond, Baylor and Bing.

If Jordan had not sat out 93/94 and returned late in 94/95, it is possible Drexler and Olajuwon would also be ringless.

I know I know Duncan should be a HoFer, And James has beat Pierce, Garnett, and Durant, harden, and Westbrook. Well thanks to Lebron, Dirk Nowitski has a ring. Lebron's questionable clutch play is well-known. Picking just 2 examples: when he actually had Shaq and Jamison on his team in Cleveland and still shot 20% in GM 5 in Rnd 2 2010 playoffs then 38% in GM 6 with 9 turnovers that year. They choked. And in 2011 finals v. Nowitski, just go revisit it, it is something none can ever say Jordan ever did, as flat out a choke job as there can be in sports.

Even little meaningless differences tell the tale: Lebron made 5 3ptrs last night in the game, Jordan once hit 6 3ptrs in a half in the finals

the #s really don't lie nor do my eyes, right now MJ is the greatest

Lebron still has time to change that, but he needs some better caliber opponents to be measured against. Bird had Magic, Jordan had everyone, LeBron has Nowitski? Wade(on his team), Garnett?? Problem is vs. Nowitski, Lebron did not show up. Vs. Garnett in 2008 Gm 1 and 2 Leron shoots 8-42 and fails to show up. I don't believe Lebron is a choker, just inconsistent. I think that comes in part because his role is so f'd up. Is he a Magic/O robertson PG or a George Gervin forward? I think if he ever settled into a role he could start to win arguments for greatest player ever. MJ is the best guard for sure, Lebron should be the best small forward, but he's not. I think Kobe and MJ are the best finishers ever.

Time will tell.

Jordan never won without Pippen. Lebron is better

LeBron is in the conversation, which is saying something.

This point is very subjective of course but I'll make it anyway:

Jordan was like watching a super hero in real life. He did things no one had done before and that no one has done as well since. LeBron, as good as he is, isn't like that. As a player he's a really really good version of similar players who came before him (e.g. Magic, Pippen).

This isn't to say Jordan is necessarily "better". I think that's kind of a dumb debate to have because it will always boil down to where you subjectively set the goalposts of "better". A similar argument can be made for Steph Curry, who I assume we'd all agree is not "better" than LeBron. Curry is unique, the way he plays is unique.

5 1/2 years later. Has time been kind to Lebron?

If his teams were 6-3 in the Finals instead of 3-6 I don't think we'd need to have this conversation.

LeBron really has only one convincing Finals win.

2013 Ray Allen miracle-three bailout or else they lose

2016 epic Golden State collapse of historical proportions

Like it or not Finals wins is a key metric for ranking historical greatness of players. We can debate if this is fair or not in general or in specific cases but that's how it is.

He's had lots of chances to make a near-irrefutable case as the best player ever and has left the door open. He's 33 now and on a team that's not a contender for the Finals, he may be done winning championships.

Jordan's most impressive performance is arguably the 1997-98 season. He was old (35) and had lost a step. Pippen missed about half the season with injuries and neither he or Rodman were playing at an elite level anymore most of the time when they were playing. Jordan averaged 32.4 points in 21 games (his highest in the playoffs since 1993) and beat a strong Pacers team in the conference finals and a strong Utah team in the NBA finals, both were probably better teams overall than the Bulls that year. If LeBron does something similar over the next few years I may reconsider my opinion.

Jordan's scoring in 1998 playoffs and 35 years old:

39 win vs. Nets

32 win vs. Nets

38 win vs. Nets

35 win vs. Hornets

22 loss vs. Hornets

27 win vs. Hornets

31 win vs. Hornets

33 win vs. Hornets

31 win vs. Pacers

41 win vs. Pacers

30 loss vs. Pacers

28 loss vs. Pacers

29 win vs. Pacers

35 loss vs. Pacers

28 win vs. Pacers

33 loss vs. Jazz

37 win vs. Jazz

24 win vs. Jazz

34 win vs. Jazz

28 loss vs. Jazz

45 win vs. Jazz

As an older guy, an old school pickup ball player, and an iverson fan, I have no doubts that lebron is the best ball player ever.

The use of present tense in the subject line is a strange choice. Does anyone think that Jordan is better than Lebron?

Doesn't matter to me. Wilt beats them both.