Are Long Runs obsolete?

Sorry for in-season training we do 2 Interval days, 1 Tempo, 1 "Long Run", 2 Easy/Progression, 1 recovery run day

Yes, eliminate the long run and supplement one of your cross training days for Xfit. With that you'll be able to get women AND run fast.

You can thank me later.

I do moderate, full body weight circuit twice per week. The women are already handled. Now I just need to run 9:15 in the 3200 in the spring.

Long runs aren't obsolete, but not every training program will include them. The shorter your races, the less important they become, but they can be beneficial for milers and above, or maybe even half milers and above (any race with a high aerobic demand).

You are getting a benefit from that Sunday (Because Sunday is the day of the long run, Saturdays and Mondays be damned) long run. It's worth doing, but with the intensity of your other days, I wouldn't push the pace. An easy 12-14 for a 3k/5k guy at your level is fantastic.

It's not an either/or question. Overall mileage is the most important thing here, but there's no reason you can't run 80-10 miles most days AND do a longer run.

"The first three weeks are just mileage, with a few easy fartleks thrown in," says O'Brien. When the more organized workouts begin in July, they add repeats of 800m to 2 miles and zone runs, which are based on Joe Vigil's VO2 max charts. On the repeats, O'Brien says, "We'll start doing those at 85 percent of a guy's mile PR, then gradually increase that to 88, 91, and finally 94 percent." The zone runs are done at a lower percentage, and based on a runner's 3-mile best. For example, someone with a 3-mile PR of 15:00 does a 75 percent zone run at 6:00 per mile, whereas 85 percent results in a 5:40 pace. "It makes the math real easy for the kids," says O'Brien.

Five days a week the runners do doubles, logging up to 5 miles before 7:15 a.m. One day on the weekend they'll do a long run that reaches 16 miles by the end of the summer. Hill repeats are introduced around that time, run on a median strip up the nearby Santa Anita mountains.

It's not an either/or question. Overall mileage is the most important thing here, but there's no reason you can't run 80-10 miles most days AND do a longer run.[/quote]

Id like to challenge you to change your thinking. Don't think of 12 milers as long runs. Think bigger: 18-23+ are long runs.

But I really think 12-14 miles is enough for developing adolescents in HS. The consistency of running 60 minutes per day is much more valuable.

And your hard workouts may seem mundane but when done right can get you to that 9:15.

Good luck.

Three weeks later, on July 1, semi-official workouts begin under the auspices of O'Brien's Army, a USATF club. That continues for seven weeks until school practices begin the last week in August, three weeks before the first meet. Over those 13 weeks the Apaches log prodigious miles. The top 14 runners who will make up the varsity top 1,000 miles, with underclassmen and JVs running 800 to 900. Even the lowest-level runners are asked to do 650 miles.

This would appear to be a violation of CIF rules (out of season training), or at least questionable territory. I wonder if this is the reason why O'Brien is in trouble with his track coach--if it is just the track coach.

How exactly would it be a violation of rules to run in the summer. If it were, I would run anyway.

All the guys at Wichita East and in the vicinity ran with Bob Timmons' Wichita Track Club in the summers.

J.R. wrote:

How exactly would it be a violation of rules to run in the summer. If it were, I would run anyway.

All the guys at Wichita East and in the vicinity ran with Bob Timmons' Wichita Track Club in the summers.

Many states have down periods when coaches cannot coach their teams.

1 hr monday - saturday

90 minutes sunday

Learn from the best wrote:

http://www.runnerspace.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=36807&do=videos&video_id=54168

"The first three weeks are just mileage, with a few easy fartleks thrown in," says O'Brien. When the more organized workouts begin in July, they add repeats of 800m to 2 miles and zone runs, which are based on Joe Vigil's VO2 max charts. On the repeats, O'Brien says, "We'll start doing those at 85 percent of a guy's mile PR, then gradually increase that to 88, 91, and finally 94 percent." The zone runs are done at a lower percentage, and based on a runner's 3-mile best. For example, someone with a 3-mile PR of 15:00 does a 75 percent zone run at 6:00 per mile, whereas 85 percent results in a 5:40 pace. "It makes the math real easy for the kids," says O'Brien.

[/quote]

He says it makes the math easy for the kids, but I fail to see how 75% of 5:00 race pace could possibly be 6:00. 5:00 is 83% of 6:00, or 6:00 is 120% of 5:00. He's closer, but still off by a few percent on the other one (5:00 is 88% of 5:40, or 5:40 is 113% of 5:00).

I hate that his math is spoken incorrectly/backwards, too. Why do coaches do this? He doesn't have kids run at 85, 88, 91, or 93% of their mile PR pace; conversely, their mile PR pace is that percentage of their training pace.

Sorry to get off topic, but he says it keeps it simple for his athlete, but it's simply not correct math.

The only CIF governed sport in summer is football.

Some sections (that is esentially a region in CA) have implemented a dead week before the start of the season. You are allowed to condition (run) but not do technical work (analyze form, etc.).

You are allowed to condition all summer but it cannot be mandatory or determine who makes the team. In other words a faster kid who didn't train all summer makes the team over a slower kid who did. But since most XC teams are non-cut this is not an issue.

The Animal Within wrote:

Id like to challenge you to change your thinking. Don't think of 12 milers as long runs. Think bigger: 18-23+ are long runs.

But I really think 12-14 miles is enough for developing adolescents in HS. The consistency of running 60 minutes per day is much more valuable.

And your hard workouts may seem mundane but when done right can get you to that 9:15.

Good luck.

Well if he's only doing in the 50-60 mi range then 25% of weekly mileage is 12.4-15 miles so that is plenty long. 90-105min Long Runs should be good for him

coach d wrote:

This would appear to be a violation of CIF rules (out of season training), or at least questionable territory. I wonder if this is the reason why O'Brien is in trouble with his track coach--if it is just the track coach.

"The first three weeks are just mileage, with a few easy fartleks thrown in," says O'Brien"

The first three weeks are the dead period weeks when he's not there. He talks about those at his clinics. I guess the kids organize practice on their own for three weeks