Can someone explain how Cam Levins was the darling prince of NCAA'a last year and now foreigners are killing the sport?

Getting coverage for world cross country every year is a good trick given that it's only held every other year now. I don't think there's a better example of the sport's declining popularity.

Adam C wrote:

Odd that people think Cam Levins was a "mediocre" runner who just became a world class runner by sheer hard work. You don't run the times he's run in the 5K/10K and run the Olympic 10K final without the elite inherent running talent to do so. That Levins was a "mediocre" runner in high school probably means he was under trained or hadn't matured physically yet, or most likely a combination of both. In a way he's the new Pat Porter.

In addition, Levins, while not world class, was not a "4:2X and a 16:30 guy" in high school. He ran 4:00 for the 1500m and 15:27 for the 5k. Nothing to indicate his current success, but certainly indicates some talent especially if he was undertrained.

HRE wrote:

Getting coverage for world cross country every year is a good trick given that it's only held every other year now. I don't think there's a better example of the sport's declining popularity.

Being held every other year is not an example of declining popularity.

Anything under 17 for the 5k indicates that with proper coaching and ambition a runner has the capacity to drop 30 seconds a year in college. Calling someone mediocre for running a 15 or 16 anything in highschool is obnoxious.

I also hate the fact that everyone believes a sub 2 or a sub 4:30 1600 is automatically correlation that you should be running a 15 minute 5k.

Koppenberg wrote:

There is a simple solution: hold two races.

One is a competitive race that awards championship places and awards to the fastest athletes and teams.

The other is a special race just for American-born athletes. In this race, everyone gets a ribbon just for participating and is encouraged to feel special and as much like a winner as possible, without the dangers of actual competition. No one in the special just-for-American-born-joggers race is allowed to feel like a loser, so everyone gets exactly the same ribbon. Also: because the clock is biased toward faster runners, no time will be kept.

Best post on this thread so far!!

jx10 wrote:

Yeah that means Nick Willis types as well. At least bar foreign nationals from receiving any athletics tender. That would change things. Hey University is free in New Zealand anyway...

University free in New Zealand??....umm maybe in the 1980's.

kdk wrote:

HRE wrote:

Getting coverage for world cross country every year is a good trick given that it's only held every other year now. I don't think there's a better example of the sport's declining popularity.

Being held every other year is not an example of declining popularity.

It's being held every other year because fewer and fewer countries were interested enough in the meet to send teams. That's declining popularity.

HRE wrote:

It's being held every other year because fewer and fewer countries were interested enough in the meet to send teams. That's declining popularity.

IAAF switched World XC Championships to every other year because East Africans dominate NCAA Championships? Is that what you're saying? That the rest of the world's interest hinges on what happens at the NCAA's?

Or are you saying that East African dominance of the World XC Championships is bad for the sport? If that's the case, what's your remedy? Ban East Africans from the one sport they're actually good enough at to dominate?

And you know what? I love Meb. Abdi not as much, especially after his close training partner got busted for PEDs, but that's something else. But again...Abdi didn't even run in high school, but was an instant success when he did start running at Pima. INSTANT. He murdered everyone he raced in his first run, in basketball shoes with zero training. Meb was no Hall or Rupp or German, but he was still a California state champ and one of the best in the nation his senior year. So you're still missing the point. Levins was WAY behind these guys and got there by running 140 miles a week. He got to the Olympics by doing 140-160 miles a week. We have not heard any stories about these african runners going from not qualifying to nationals as frosh and sophomores to being superstuds by piling on super high mileage. ITS THE MILEAGE. And the fact that he was a nobody before it.

And I have no belief that the African dominance is hurting the sport...I am only commenting on why Levins is so much more loved.

orbitboy wrote:

Or are you saying that East African dominance of the World XC Championships is bad for the sport? If that's the case, what's your remedy? Ban East Africans from the one sport they're actually good enough at to dominate?

That's actually a very good point. East Asians are dominating the table tennis rankings (in the current men's top 10, there are six Chinese, one Taiwanese, one Japanese, one Korean and one German), but that does not mean the sport is "less popular" worldwide - it would be more popular in the US, for sure, if there were 1 or 2 top US players, but nobody suggests banning or handicapping Chinese players (or Jamaican sprinters, Russian Chess players, Korean Archers, American ice hockey players, etc.)

However, that shouldn't stop someone who wants to promote the sport in areas where it's not currently popular to increase its appeal there. Other sports have followed a similar route (with varying success) - Formula 1 just opened the first purpose-built race course in the US (and it sold out), top European football teams play games in Asia in the summer, the Tour de France often starts in different countries, and the NBA will play a regular game in London next year. Introducing professional golf tournaments to China has created a huge boom there.

If distance running is to become more popular in the US outside of the Olympics, its governing body should look at that list, and be a bit more adventurous and bold. Why not introduce an "American Ekiden Series" that tours major cities? The Payton Jordan Invitational is great, but it draws a crowd of a few thousand, and if you're lucky, it's live-streaming on flotrack. Why not have a 1 lap (4k) road race right before the start of the Indianapolis 500, in front of 400,000 people, and with the chance of showing at least parts of it to a really large TV audience?

The real problem is that there is no such thing as a governing body for distance running. But until we try every other opportunity, let's not blame "foreigners" for the lack of popularity of our sport.

Obviously, what happens at the NCAA Championships has little or nothing to do with what happens with the IAAF cross country championships. But a number of countries that were once competitive at the latter event have stopped sending teams because they are no longer competitive and it's East Africans with whom they cannot compete.

Is that bad for the sport? I think the loss of an annual world cross country championship, for whatever reason, is bad for the sport. What's my remedy? Run the event annually regardless of who shows up. Have runners from non-African countries train more and get faster.

But that's not happening nor does it seem likely to. Instead, countries who once sent full teams and challenged for the championship have lost interest and don't send teams. Yes. I think that's bad for the sport but there's not much anyone can do about it.