It's important to get details right, otherwise people don't take you seriously. What if you misspelled the title of your thesis?
It's important to get details right, otherwise people don't take you seriously. What if you misspelled the title of your thesis?
[quote]Unhappy basterd wrote:
No, my point is that the author made an error saying there was a 3000m in 1972.
I am totally in support of HS girls running 5k.
But with his fact checking/proof reading skills and your reading comprehension, we better hope that someone else is also fighting this good fight.
Hey, I have no problem with you insulting me...the principal of this whole deal is that if you believe girls should be running 5K cross country, then let's be a unified front. Contact me at
and join the effort.
letsrun post = thesis, is that really what you want to compare it to? Were the incorrect details really relevant to the OP's thread?
Mr. Deeds wrote:
Although I am not opposed to changing the distance from the current 4K to 5K. This change of 1K however will have little or no effect as to the outcome of most races. Additionally, having coached on the collegiate level, if you can't gauge a runner based on their times in a 4K versus needing a 5K to guage a runner, then I think coaching is not an occupation you should be pursuing. For instance, any coach can easily see Alli Cash's current ability, it is the good to great coach who can predict her full potential as she has yet to development hence leaving little room for improvement in the future.
For the sake of discussion, how about the ability of McKenzie Iverson of SM Northwest, who finished 12th at Kansas Class 6A. She is a stud-ette, and certainly capable of running in college, but she falls in a gray area when coaches have limited dollars and must make decisions between seemingly equally-talented girls from, say, Missouri (where they run 5K) and Iverson. That defines the dilemma that I heard from coaches when I did the initial survey work in 2009.
Allie Cash can write her own ticket, much as Avery Clifton did two years ago, Amy Mortimer many years earlier. I feel strongly that many other girls at the sub-elite level will get more opportunities, and all we need to do is give them the same opportunity that 42 other states currently give high school girls.
FYI...don't confuse my comments about college coaches as saying they're looking at times. Enough people have said times don't mean much in cross country. I agree. Having knowledge of how athletes of similar ability perform at 5K is helpful in determining who fits best in your college program.
I have a problem with me insulting you. It was entirely classless and cheap. I apologize. There was no need for it and it's a perfect example of the kind of crap on this board that on other days I criticize. I'm sorry--I do applaud your efforts and I'll support your cause.
Pat Melgares wrote:
[quote]Unhappy basterd wrote:
No, my point is that the author made an error saying there was a 3000m in 1972.
I am totally in support of HS girls running 5k.
But with his fact checking/proof reading skills and your reading comprehension, we better hope that someone else is also fighting this good fight.
Hey, I have no problem with you insulting me...the principal of this whole deal is that if you believe girls should be running 5K cross country, then let's be a unified front. Contact me at
melgares@LetsGoRun.comand join the effort.
[quote]Unhappy basterd wrote:
I have a problem with me insulting you. It was entirely classless and cheap. I apologize. There was no need for it and it's a perfect example of the kind of crap on this board that on other days I criticize. I'm sorry--I do applaud your efforts and I'll support your cause.
[quote]Pat Melgares wrote:
[quote]Unhappy basterd wrote:
No, my point is that the author made an error saying there was a 3000m in 1972.
I am totally in support of HS girls running 5k.
But with his fact checking/proof reading skills and your reading comprehension, we better hope that someone else is also fighting this good fight.
Cool! Thank you...really, it's not a problem. Just talk this issue up with Kansas coaches and try to alleviate their concerns that it may cut their numbers down or that girls won't want to run the extra distance. Yes, those will be challenges, but we're RUNNERS and we don't shy from challenge!
Spread the word; keep the buzz going. Let people know that we want to make a difference, or be part of doing something that will be good for the long term.
Take care...
When is the vote? Who is voting, coaches, ADs, or state administrators only? How does it work there?
withers wrote:
When is the vote? Who is voting, coaches, ADs, or state administrators only? How does it work there?
Sorry, I don't have all the details. The vote is part of the end-of-season survey that is sent to all high school coaches. It is one of a few issues they vote on. It is a vote by coaches only.
The end-of-season survey is already complete and will be mailed soon, if not already in the mail. I believe the results of the vote are announced in January during the annual cross country coaches meeting/conference. It must receive final approval from the Kansas State High School Activities Association.
Pat,
You are absolutely correct that the girls should be racing 5k. They are at a competitive disadvantage compared to other states.
Rim Rock Invite has the girls race 5k and it is a success.
Like they do on the boys side, they can keep the C race at 2 miles.
Varsity should run 5k.
What about collegiate women running 6k compared to 10k...
If you are referring to the Rim Rock Farm High School XC Classic, the girls run 4k. Alli Cash just set the girls's HS record this year at 13:59.30. The KC Metro meet runs 5k, but that is held in Ray-Pec, MO. To my knowledge, no significant girls race in KS is run at the 5k distance. Here's a link to the Rim Rock Farm High School XC Classic history:
Just so much discussion out there on this issue:
NEBRASKA:
OKLAHOMA:
http://newsok.com/high-school-cross-country-mustang-girls-make-history-in-5k-race/article/3711209
TEXAS:
http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/02/high-school-gir.html/
IN WISCONSIN, the Big Rivers Conference runs 5K for its girls championship, even though the state runs 4K. There seems to be considerable momentum in that state to get it to a vote of all schools.
One more thing, related to participation numbers: Connecticut made the jump from 4K to 5K in 2008.
** In 2007 (4K), girls participation was at 2,630
** In 2008 (5K), participation went up 61 girls -- 2,691.
** In 2009, participation again went up -- 2,740
** In 2010, up again... 2,775 (all time high for that state).
In 2011, participation dipped to 2,684. No numbers available yet for 2012.
It will be interesting to see if participation is down again in 2012, and if so be able to determine the reasons why. If we learn that it's because of 5K distance, that is important to know: it will further inform this discussion.
Of note: From 2000 through 2008, Connecticut had two qualifiers for the Footlocker Nationals (same girl, Meghan Owen in 2000 and 2002). In 2009, two Connecticut girls made Footlocker Nationals. It's not a trend, and certainly no clear indication that moving to 5K is the difference-maker, but it's the kind of thing that may indicate positive progress for girls in non-5K states.
Girls and their development are completely different than boys. As a coach I would never ever want to base my recruiting decision upon a girls 4k or even 5k time. Before I ever recruit a young lady I want to see her run in person. Most young ladies will run their personal records as either a freshman or sophomore in high school. I would estimate that only 15 to 20% of all girls running cross country and track never improve past the times they established as a freshman or sophomore.
Therefore, although Cash can write her own ticket, I don't see a huge upside to her development in the next 4 years. Yes, she is running outstanding times which would be very competitive right now on the college level. However her progressive will not be linear like you would see in a teenage boys progression.
Pat Melgares wrote:
Hey, I have no problem with you insulting me...the principal
"principle"
of this whole deal is that if you believe girls should be running 5K cross country, then let's be a unified front. Contact me at
melgares@LetsGoRun.comand join the effort.
Some of us refuse to unite behind people who lack credibility. There's principle to that, too.
Picayune. wrote:
Have you seen Kansas cows, I mean Kansas girls? We'd be doing them a favor by keeping it to a shorter distance.
If cows come to mind, maybe they should be running
10k+(daily). Look at the data that indicates that since most states have increased race distance even from 3200m to 4k, that much progress has been made in average race times.
ONE kilometer more will not hurt anyone, and will help in the continued progress of U.S. female distance running.
Yeah, asking them to run more will make them want to eat less.
Faulty Facts wrote:
Most college coaches care much more about track times than 4k or 5k times which are rarely ran on accurate courses.
Your math confuses me. 87% + 7%=93%, so wouldn't that leave 7% of the remaining population producing 5% of the remaining FL spots? Some of these states that run less than 5k probably aren't distance hotbeds and probably have good reason for shorter distance - I'm guessing heat/hot climate is a factor for some of the states still running shorter distances.
lol. 87%+7%=94%, no 93%. math fail
hmmmmm ! wrote:
Faulty Facts wrote:Most college coaches care much more about track times than 4k or 5k times which are rarely ran on accurate courses.
Your math confuses me. 87% + 7%=93%, so wouldn't that leave 7% of the remaining population producing 5% of the remaining FL spots? Some of these states that run less than 5k probably aren't distance hotbeds and probably have good reason for shorter distance - I'm guessing heat/hot climate is a factor for some of the states still running shorter distances.
lol. 87%+7%=94%, no 93%. math fail
So is it then 94% of the states produce 95% of the FL qualifiers? Does that seem bad? Or, am I missing something?? No? Not? Nadda? What's the issue again?
Forgive me for any math, grammar, or spelling fail.
ks1 wrote:
If you are referring to the Rim Rock Farm High School XC Classic, the girls run 4k. Alli Cash just set the girls's HS record this year at 13:59.30. The KC Metro meet runs 5k, but that is held in Ray-Pec, MO. To my knowledge, no significant girls race in KS is run at the 5k distance. Here's a link to the Rim Rock Farm High School XC Classic history:
http://ks.milesplit.com/meets/119534/results/214292
They used to run 5k at Rim Rock. Amy hastings won the 5k in 18:XX in 2002.
Whoops! wrote:
Pat Melgares wrote:Hey, I have no problem with you insulting me...the principal
"principle"
of this whole deal is that if you believe girls should be running 5K cross country, then let's be a unified front. Contact me at
melgares@LetsGoRun.comand join the effort.
Some of us refuse to unite behind people who lack credibility. There's principle to that, too.
No problem...have a good day! Good sense will win out...