Your assumption that the OP was simply talking about whites or "whitey" when he was talking about his desire to see Americans win NCAA Championships is highly offensive. There are millions upon millions of black people who are also capable of being grouped in the category of "Americans". This is a question of nationality not race.
The presence of Africans in the NCAA is good for American athletes. How is it a bad thing for young American runners to get used to racing against international talent? Do you think that guys like Rupp and Centro would be doing better right now if they'd never raced an African until they were in their 20s?
Sick of the Kenyans. They will be the top 5 across the line. Half of them are like 28 years old anyways.
They should have their own colleges and stay out of ours.
If they did it would be like them getting 5 Americans and starting a weightlifting team!
we are cursed wrote:
Sick of the Kenyans. They will be the top 5 across the line. Half of them are like 28 years old anyways.
They should have their own colleges and stay out of ours.
If they did it would be like them getting 5 Americans and starting a weightlifting team!
YEAH SEGREGATION!!! CAN WE GO BACK TO SEPARATE BUT EQUAL?!?!
It's not a money issue at all. I think (naively I admit) that US coaches have an obligation to the sport to develop US runners. "The sport" is buttering your bread, allowing you to earn a living because someone, some where valued the sport of running. Chances are this "coach" was a scholarship runner himself, and has benefited. Now when it's his time to develop more runners, he starts hiring foreign talent.
Yeah, you can say the coach only has an obligation to win championships but does any AD give a rip? A guarantee they care even less if all the athletes are foreign.
I had foreign teammates in college. I even had a coach that was from another country. They were great guys. Was it "enriching" to have the around, Yes. BUT.. there were other runners that could have been in that spot.
If you want to watch more programs go down the toilet then yeah, field nothing but foreign talent. In the end it's bad for the sport.
all schools are businesses anyways....its all about money and power
The concern to me is, how does it help the sport?
Ok maybe 1 per team, but look at Arizona. My god they go 1-2 and then they suck!
That is not coaching! Please don't say he is a good coach.
He is a recruiter not a coach.
What get me is people always say
"you don't know the sport" if you question the number foreign. Tell that to Wettmore or Stanford.
EZ10Miler wrote:
It's not a money issue at all. I think (naively I admit) that US coaches have an obligation to the sport to develop US runners. "The sport" is buttering your bread, allowing you to earn a living because someone, some where valued the sport of running. Chances are this "coach" was a scholarship runner himself, and has benefited. Now when it's his time to develop more runners, he starts hiring foreign talent.
Yeah, you can say the coach only has an obligation to win championships but does any AD give a rip? A guarantee they care even less if all the athletes are foreign.
I had foreign teammates in college. I even had a coach that was from another country. They were great guys. Was it "enriching" to have the around, Yes. BUT.. there were other runners that could have been in that spot.
If you want to watch more programs go down the toilet then yeah, field nothing but foreign talent. In the end it's bad for the sport.
The reason programs go down the toilet has zero to do with foreign runners. Absolutely zero. So your entire argument is flawed.
You keep talking about development, collegiate runners develop by competing against the best talent available. Does not matter where that talent is from.
EZ10Miler wrote:
If you want to watch more programs go down the toilet then yeah, field nothing but foreign talent. In the end it's bad for the sport.
Again, it is great for American runners to race against international competition. It isn't ruining the sport. It is helping us to produce top tier American runners.
How the h*ll is shielding our best American runners from top-notch foreign competition considered "developing US runners"?
A bunch of whiny b*tches on here.
Furthermore, how is recruiting foreign athletes lazy? You still have to try to develop them to the best of your ability.
More importantly, what are the college coaches learning from importing the African runners? It is just not American runners that need to learn but also the coaches. If they can just import a few aces to make their team better, what are they learning that can be applied to the rest of the team? How will they be better when coaching American runners?
EZ10Miler wrote:
It's not a money issue at all. I think (naively I admit) that US coaches have an obligation to the sport to develop US runners.
Is that what their athletic departments are paying them to do?
If collegiate XC is predominately filled with foreign competition then HS kids will find something else to do. I dont like to toss around the "role model" thing too much but honestly if you never know anyone or see anyone going on to the next level it just becomes "something Kenyans/Irish/whatever.. do".
Bottom line: It's not good for the sport. There are plenty of college coaches that feel the same way.
I know if my old school fielded a team of nothing but foreign talent I wouldn't give a rip about them winning a conference title.
As far as competing vs the best in the world. Athletes on that level have plenty of time and opportunity for that.
EZ10Miler wrote:
If collegiate XC is predominately filled with foreign competition then HS kids will find something else to do. I dont like to toss around the "role model" thing too much but honestly if you never know anyone or see anyone going on to the next level it just becomes "something Kenyans/Irish/whatever.. do".
I don't know of anyone who became a runner because they were inspired by a collegiate team or athlete. Very few high school runners even know who the top college guys are.
We're seeing more Americans "going to the next level" now than we have in quite a while (did you watch the Olympics?). As I've stated already, if anything, foreigners in the NCAA have a positive impact on the success of American athletes at the next level.
Using Oregon as a random example, I looked up the athletic department mission statement.
http://www.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=31390
I imagine most other universities have very similar stated goals. It doesn't surprise me at all that recruiting foreign athletes doesn't conflict at all with the stated mission of the department.
Tax em. Hit them where it hurts. That will show them. Income generation for paper badges.
EZ10Miler wrote:
If collegiate XC is predominately filled with foreign competition then HS kids will find something else to do. I dont like to toss around the "role model" thing too much but honestly if you never know anyone or see anyone going on to the next level it just becomes "something Kenyans/Irish/whatever.. do".
Bottom line: It's not good for the sport. There are plenty of college coaches that feel the same way.
I know if my old school fielded a team of nothing but foreign talent I wouldn't give a rip about them winning a conference title.
As far as competing vs the best in the world. Athletes on that level have plenty of time and opportunity for that.
Why don't you stop being a complainer and go train some Americans to be faster than the Africans
EZ10Miler wrote:
If collegiate XC is predominately filled with foreign competition then HS kids will find something else to do. I dont like to toss around the "role model" thing too much but honestly if you never know anyone or see anyone going on to the next level it just becomes "something Kenyans/Irish/whatever.. do".
it's good for us wrote:
I don't know of anyone who became a runner because they were inspired by a collegiate team or athlete. Very few high school runners even know who the top college guys are.
We're seeing more Americans "going to the next level" now than we have in quite a while (did you watch the Olympics?). As I've stated already, if anything, foreigners in the NCAA have a positive impact on the success of American athletes at the next level.
+1. People get started in athletics at a young age, and they decide usually based upon where their talents lie and what their friends do, not what a random sample of the demographics of local universities' sports teams. Anyone who gets discouraged at the thought of racing with/against foreigners is not going to be an impact on the US running scene, anyway, and so there is no loss by not developing these cowards.
Also, why do people act like you can just go pick up a couple foreigners and then let them sit around eating pizza and ice cream while the coach just hits up the bars and then they'll go to meets together and destroy everyone? THESE GUYS STILL WORK. The foreign athletes still put in the training. The coaches still recruit and write workouts and try to get these runners to be their best.
Note how I got Americans correct and Africans correct several times before I made a typo. Oops, you friggen idiot.
oink oink wrote:
the bigger question wrote:Interesting thought, but if Americans want to win NCAA XC titles, they need to work and train harder. Don't blame it on the Africans. They are looking for a better life. Don't blame the universities...they are just looking to field the best teams possible while exemplifying a world view in not only helping Americans, but helping others, not matter what nationality, achieve a better life.
Africans going to college here are much more likely to give back and help improve the lives of people in their societies. We get our degrees, buy a house, have kids, etc...its all very "me" oriented. Plenty of Africans start programs and donate money back to people who really need it, so that other people can have a chance at a better life.
I have met several African's in my life, while in college and after, some were athletes, some were not. I can tell you that there isn't one of them I would ever say anything negative about. They are good people.
First, it's Africans, not African's. Honestly, when are people going to stop using the apostrophe to pluralize words?
Other than your abuse of English grammar, I agree with your point. Coaches can and do get fired for not winning. Therefore, if I'm a college coach, I'm recruiting the best athletes I can get, and I don't care where they come from. It's job preservation.
I had a Kenyan teammate in college. One of the finest people I've ever known. He was humble, funny, generous, and a good student. My college experience was better for having known him. I suspect that these stories could be told many times over.
But yeah, let's kick them all out so whitey can win the NCAAs.
I agree to the extent that scholarship money should go to taxpaying us citizens.
Otherwise, I have no gripe with the Kenyans.