Villanova vs Cornell

Huh?! wrote:

Pressure is what YOU perceive. Cornell used to have [still does?] the highest suicide rate in the country, BTW. Kids jumping into that gorge and stuff, plus cut-throat classes with grading curves. Look it up.

Good suggestion. I did. As far as direct information about Cornell, this bit from 2000 (which I guess would meet your "used to" reference) is clear:

"Cornell University is one peer institution that does maintain moderately complete records of their student deaths in response to a common perception that they have a high suicide rate. Cornell had eight students take their own lives in the past ten years. With about 19,000 students on campus, Cornell has a suicide rate of about 4.3 per 100,000 student years for that time period, far below both MIT and national rates."

Source: student newspaper at MIT, which also is "renowned"--if inaccurately--for a high suicide rate (http://tech.mit.edu/V120/N6/comp6.6n.html)

A more recent study found that, of the seven other Ivy League universities, Cornell was LESS stressful than six:

Columbia, Stanford, and Harvard were declared the three *most* stressful universities in the country.

[Suicides do tend to happen in clusters. Certainly the way to judge a university's suicide rate is, say, by ten year compilations (used in the first reference), rather than focusing on high-publicity clusters--which, sadly, many colleges have experienced over recent decades.]

It's tough to compare schools, because some colleges (e.g. Cornell) keep better stats and others do a much poorer job, but

the bottom line is this: Averaged over years, Cornell does NOT have the highest suicide rate, and--as far as I can learn--NEVER has.

I am, of course, open to any reliably-sourced stats (i.e. NOT urban legends) to the contrary.

So, what--are you saying "Huh?!" was wrong? Like really wrong?

Cornell's Artie Smith has not been getting a lot of love in response to this question. Many other good points but don't go to 'Nova without meeting Artie and talking to him about the program there.

Rustamon wrote:

Cornell's Artie Smith has not been getting a lot of love in response to this question. Many other good points but don't go to 'Nova without meeting Artie and talking to him about the program there.

Okay, this is fair. I've met him and he seems like a good guy--and his team really seems to love him. He's also had a fair amount of success in recent years: in addition to the xc stuff, I think his students (three or four different ones) have finished 1-2 or 1-3 in the Ivy League 10,000m race.

I accept that I could be wrong as I went on what people have told me including my Cornell alum buddy. Just something I heard. W&M also has a much of the same "urban legend" which I was surprised to discover a few years ago when they had a cluster as it's called.

Certainly, stress in general, and on THE TEAM should be looked into as PART OF the decision-making process. This has a lot to do with the upperclassmen leaders on any given team at any given time so you need to take that into account as well. But it starts at the top which would be Artie or Gina. Both are certainly (and probably extremely) aware of this dynamic being women's-only coaches.

Oh, "use to". Sorry about that.

Oh, and Villanova being the Yankees of women's cross country. I like that. Seems an appropriate analogy.

As a person who actually was in the same spot as you a couple years ago, all I can say is you need to visit each school. Cornell had 50+ girls and I thought that was completely unecessary. Yea Cornell is pretty good at XC this year and stuff, but those athletes spend so much time doing work. In my mind it was not worth the Ivy education. You can get a great education at Villanova and not do the amount of work that the students at Cornell do. I will agree that Artie is awesome. It was pretty hard saying no, because I absolutely loved him. The girls on the team were really nice and made u feel right at home. Now looking at Villanova....I wasn't a super star coming out of HS so I decided against going there and I completely regret it. The atmosphere there to compete and do well is insane. There's a hallway where they have all their Penn Relay hardware and All-American certificates and it's RIDICULOUS!! Legit the Yankees of XC and Track. You honestly need to see it to believe. It's such a great place to train and the team is small and close together. Gina really cares about her athletes. She treats them like their her kids. It's more than just running for her and it shows. Academically, it's a tough school but they don't spend as much time on work as I saw at Cornell. I felt like there was more of a balance at Villanova. I ended up not going to either for personal reasons but personally I completely regret not giving it a shot at Nova. Having said that, YOU need to look at each school yourself, because a pro for me could be a con for you and vice versa.

Not to mention Ithaca is in the middle of nowhere.

Absolutely Villanova. Take it from someone who went to Cornell.

a close friend of mine attends and runs for cornell and has had a great experience thus far. however, there is definitely something to be said for having a small team where the coach is more involved. however, be careful that the team isnt small for a reason. one school i visited had a very small team, which i thought would be good, but turns out that the coach was really just a D-bag and everyone had quit. from what i know personally though, i dont think you can go wrong with cornell.

Big Former Red wrote:

Not to mention Ithaca is in the middle of nowhere.

Absolutely Villanova. Take it from someone who went to Cornell.

I'm more of a city guy myself, but I enjoyed my time there. Ithaca is a cool place to spend a few years. I wouldn't want to spend a career there, but it was a fun place to be for a short period of time. Great restaurants for a small town. Good transportation to NYC (Big Red Bus takes you right into Midtown). Beautiful scenery.

If you're looking for a place to spend the next 20 years, you'll be bored in Ithaca. If you're looking for a place to spend ~2.5 years (the amount of time you actually spend at your undergrad school if you don't stick around for summer or winter breaks), Ithaca is great.

nice for a while wrote:

If you're looking for a place to spend ~2.5 years (the amount of time you actually spend at your undergrad school if you don't stick around for summer or winter breaks), Ithaca is great.

Yeah, but if you've spent a regular academic year there, you *owe* yourself a summer in Ithaca.

Experience speaks.

Do NOT go to Cornell. Biggest mistake you'll ever make. all you'll do is work, work, work and work. I'm speaking from experience. I honestly spent all my time doing work. It was not worth it. I'd hands down pick Nova. As others have stated, the Yankees of XC/Track, you're getting a great education and you can't go wrong with having Gina as your coach. It's a win-win situation.

Yale. Better school than either cornell or Villanova and they have a great coach on the womens side.

Pass on big red wrote:

Do NOT go to Cornell. Biggest mistake you'll ever make. all you'll do is work, work, work and work. I'm speaking from experience. I honestly spent all my time doing work.

Some people breeze through medical school without much work at all. Other people couldn't study enough to pass a community college course. Just depends on how smart you are. You can't assume that the OP will have the same experience as you. I attended Cornell and had a reasonable life-work balance.

You should be working hard wherever you go - if you're not going to be a pro runner, don't treat college as a 4 year XC camp. Or if you do, don't come back and whine about how you can't find a job with you 2.9 GPA in business administration.

If you have the talent and work ethic to go to Villanova then why the hell wouldn't you? You could become a pro runner. I mean personally its not even a question if thats the case. However if you're on the bubble you need to decide what you want from college and from the program itself. I'd personally pick Villanova because its pretty awesome to say "I ran XC and Track at Nova" but more importantly I majored in business so Villanova would have been the better place for me. But I don't know your case. Hopefully you make the correct one.

Can't go wrong with nova wrote:

If you have the talent and work ethic to go to Villanova then why the hell wouldn't you? You could become a pro runner. I mean personally its not even a question if thats the case. However if you're on the bubble you need to decide what you want from college and from the program itself. I'd personally pick Villanova because its pretty awesome to say "I ran XC and Track at Nova" but more importantly I majored in business so Villanova would have been the better place for me. But I don't know your case. Hopefully you make the correct one.

While being a pro runner sounds great, you also need to consider that the probability of becoming one is quite low (regardless of whether you end up at Nova or Cornell). You're better off making the decision of where you think you'll be happy and successful (from academic, social, and athletic standpoints). And you can't figure that out on an internet message board.

Cornell's AEM program is just as respected as Villanova business, so I'm not sure how you decided that Nova was the clear choice in that regard. The OP didn't mention her expected major, but that should also influence her decision of where to go. I'd also argue that saying "I graduated from Cornell" is just as impressive to most people as "I ran XC at Nova." I'd also argue that each of these statements a few years after you graduate doesn't have much worth, and shouldn't majorly influence your decision.

To the people that say you all you do at Cornell is work, that's simply not true. I did well in a tough major there, and still had plenty of time to have fun. As long as you manage your time effectively, you'll be able to go out as much as you want (within reason), and train well. A lot of people there have a work hard/play hard mentality, especially after fall of freshmen year when they've had time to adjust.

"I'd personally pick Villanova because its pretty awesome to say "I ran XC and Track at Nova" but more importantly I majored in business so Villanova would have been the better place for me."

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WOW. That must sound pretty cool for maybe 6 months to some pretty boring people. Why not try to learn a lot and have an awesome life. Go to the better school.

^Who exactly said Cornell is the better school? Academically sure but not everything is about academics. Just like there's a life outside running, there's a life outside academics as well.

Look at the school as a whole and then decide. Don't listen to these morons who are like "Cornell because it's better academically," so what? If you hate it there then what's the point.

Tough decision because one is better academically, but one is better running wise which is why you gotta look at each school as a whole and see where you fit in, and what you want. The academics? Or being on a team that contends for championships year in and year out while getting a good education?

everyone I know that went to cornell loved it, also it might help get a job later down the road with this economy. I would look at your intended major though and how good that program is at each one.