Villanova vs Cornell

runn wrote:

where to go.... wrote:

But which school has the best XC program? I'm assuming when you're an athlete you go to practice, classes, do HW and hang out with teammates and you don't have much time for anything else. So which school to pick if you want to become the best runner......

That would depend on which was the best fit for you. Visiting and assessing the coaching staff is the only way to decide.

Bingo.

Nova, Nova, Nova!!!! While I do agree that this is a decision YOU need to make, I will say you can't go wrong with Nova. There aren't many girls on the team so more focus is paid attention to you and there is an atmosphere of winning. Just walking down the hall way and seeing all the All-Americans, championships etc is jaw dropping. It's really unbelievable how successful this program has been. But like some have said, you need to decide where you fit in, but if it were me I'd choose Nova without a doubt. There's a reason why that program is good year in and year out.

Cornell lol jk, nova without a doubt. As everyone has said great program with a great coach!! Good luck with your decision though!

Depends.....do u want to have an extremely successful college career on an extremely successful team OR do you want to have success for yourself and then have to worry about the other 50+ girls on a team that hasn't been consistently ranked in the nation. I think the choice is pretty clear.

Hard to argue with the Villanova tradition at the NCAAs in women's xc and at the Penn Relays. If you're looking to be on a consistent national title contender and that is your main focus, seems like an easy and obvious choice. Villanova has been the cream of the crop in women's distance running for decades.

That said, I wouldn't discount the Cornell track/xc success either. The women have been the perennial Ivy team champions for the better part of a decade in track and the cross country team was very successful last year, winning the Heps and just missing an the NCAA berth. If they make it this year, it won't be the first time ever although obviously they don't have close to the national championship hardware that Villanova has. But Cornell consistently produces middle distance and distance runners at the NCAA level...not just Uceny but several through the years. And looking at their large roster, they should be competitive in those events for the next few years - there are some good runners there. In other words, both are successful programs depending on how you look at it, with Villanova clearly having the edge at the NCAA level but Cornell providing the consistently strong conference and regional level team.

50+ women vs. less than 20? That team size doesn't seem to slow down the several women Cornell has had through the years who do well at the NCAA level. Then again, if you think the coaches there (Artie Smith and Rich Bowman are the cross country and track head coaches) are going to ignore you, then it probably isn't a good fit. But clearly many kids choose to go there because they enjoy that kind of team environment. But maybe you want a smaller environment?

Hopefully you've actually visited to see which team environment appeals to you more. Good luck!

^What that person said. Villanova is a national contender year in and year out and while Cornell isn't they still hold their own at Heps and at Regions. Depends on you. Also consider the pressure there is at villanova to succeed. No one mentioned that but there's going to be a lot of pressure to be successful and what not. Also consider team size. Good luck though! You should be extremely excited for an opportunity like this!!

I'm a Cornell student from the Philly area that ran on the men's team at Cornell for a year, so I have a fair amount of insight into both Nova and Cornell. Yes, the Women's XC team is huge here at Cornell, but the team is tight like a family. Pretty much everyone lives together in houses in Collegetown after freshman year, eats dinner together every night all throughout freshman year, and hangs out together. Ithaca is a great place to train, and there are lots of great trails right off campus, so you'll never get bored of your running options, even if your mileage starts going up around 80-90 mpw (The women run less than the men though, so it is unlikely you'll find yourself up in that range). The one complaint about training in Ithaca is that winter training can be difficult. My freshman year was very cold in the winter, and as a result the trails were pretty much snowed in and unusable from the beginning of spring semester until April. Also, coming back to train in Philadelphia was a good change of pace, because there aren't a ton of great flat runs in Ithaca for super easy days or tempos (lot of great hills for hill work though). I will say the runners at Cornell are very blue collar. Some of the best runners on either team weren't very highly regarded in high school, or were even walk ons. Nobody gets ignored. Even as a men's runner, Artie was available to give advice. Furthermore, given his second job as an advising dean for the College of Arts and Sciences, he can really help you plan your college career over the course of four years.

As for Villanova, obviously I don't have as much of an inside scoop there, but I can at least tell you'll be training on. In high school I used to see their women out a lot training over on the trails around Haverford College. Unlike Cornell, you'll be in a suburban environment, so you'll be doing a lot more road running than you'll do in Ithaca. However, if you're willing/able to drive a little, there are some really great places within a half hour or so from Nova to do long runs. Valley Green, up in Chestnut Hill, is probably my favorite training ground, and you'll often see the athletes from Penn, La Salle, and local high schools training there, because of the variety of work you can do on the 20+ miles of trails that are available there. Valley Forge is also a fantastic place to get in a decent long run, so long as your long run doesn't really exceed 14 miles. The river loop in Fairmount Park is a great place to do some longer tempo runs, as its marked every quarter mile, is relatively flat, and lasts 8.4 miles.

As for life as a student, its my personal bias, but I think Cornell is a more fun place to go to school than Villanova. Obviously running and school come first, but I'm a firm believer than if you are unhappy with your school, it will affect your training. Therefore, my advice to you, especially as someone who no longer competitively runs for their school, is pick the school where you will be happiest at, even if you are never able to run a race. You never know if injuries may change your plans like they did to me. And while I came to Cornell planning on running, I have never once regretted coming here, even after leaving the cross country squad. You really can't go wrong picking either school as long as you pick it for the right reasons. So good luck, and stay healthy.

Okay so here is my advice to you: visit the schools if you haven't already. Secondly think about whether you want to go onto the next level. Because in a way going to Villanova is setting yourself up for that. Runners go to Nova because they think Gina can get them to the next level. If you're unsure then Cornell is where it's at because you can get to the next level from Cornell but at the same it's not really pressure. What I mean is when people think about Nova XC they're like "Holy crap! You run for them?!" Secondly to the person who said Cornell runners aren't good out of HS. I beg to differ. Pretty sure Katie ran 10:34 and 17:54(XC) and her sister ran 10:29 and 17:13. Those are top notch times. Not mentioning their other frosh who ran 4:55, 10:30, and 17:18......those are DI times at really good programs. So what I'm saying is, BOTH schools have great runners out of HS. But Nova has that rich tradition and it all depends on whether you want to be a part of that. I think in either case, you'll be in great hands.

YES. wrote:

^What that person said. Villanova is a national contender year in and year out and while Cornell isn't they still hold their own at Heps and at Regions. Depends on you. Also consider the pressure there is at villanova to succeed. No one mentioned that but there's going to be a lot of pressure to be successful and what not. Also consider team size. Good luck though! You should be extremely excited for an opportunity like this!!

Pressure from who, the ghosts of the past?

If you don't think there's large amounts of pressure to succeed at villanova then you're delusional. Gina may attempt to distract her runners from it but they know. They know how successful this program has been and they want to carry that on. Stop being delusional. The bigger the program, the more pressure there is. If Nova runs like shit, people talk about how the program is done blah blah Therefore there's pressure to run great so the program doesn't look "bad" as it has this year.....well its looked bad for Nova's standards.

If you can't handle pressure, you should be running D3

The answer to your question will become clear once you sit down and talk with each coach and meet some of the girls on the teams. Good luck.

Many people go to Nova because they want the "pressure" to perform and uphold the tradition

Pressure is what YOU perceive. Cornell used to have [still does?] the highest suicide rate in the country, BTW. Kids jumping into that gorge and stuff, plus cut-throat classes with grading curves. Look it up.

But to suggest there is no pressure to do well at D3 either academically or athletically? Huh? That's a silly and ignorant statement. I'm sure the runners down the street at Haverford feel the same pressure as Villanova runners. Maybe even more so with the highest of academic rigors at Haverford.

Choose based on major and 'fit' with campus. Both running programs are fantastic. Enough said. If she likes the outdoors and nature, go to Cornell. If she likes the mall and being next to an amazing city, go to Villanova.

In addition to final cost, proximity to home is often a big factor too.

Different strokes for different folks.

Huh?! wrote:

Pressure is what YOU perceive. Cornell used to have [still does?] the highest suicide rate in the country, BTW. Kids jumping into that gorge and stuff, plus cut-throat classes with grading curves. Look it up..

What institution these days with even a hint of academic rigor does not have competitive classes with grading curves? Kids need to buck up, work hard and expect to be in tough competition with their classmates. The working world is the same way. Everyone can't be number one.

Okay here is the deal, you need to visit both schools and talk to both coaches and see where you fit. But here is my take on the situation: anyone that wants to try and put Cornell in the same league as Villanova when it comes to XC is delusional. Villanova is one of the best female distance programs EVER. I can go on and on about national championships and Olympians, but the fact is Villanova is having a bad year and yet they're still nationally ranked. Cornell is having a GREAT year, but this is new to them. They're not nationally ranked year in and year out. What happens when they have a bad year? Do they rebound or do they become irrelevant nationally? History has shown it's the latter. Now they still win HEPS and place well at regionals during that time but they're not a national power house and if you want to be a part of a program that is, there is no question that the correct answer is Villanova. As a runner, you can't go wrong with what Gina is doing over there at Villanova. She will get you to reach your full potential. Having said that, Cornell is obviously a very good program and you can find success as well. I think they'll be good for the next two years and I guess we'll have to see what happens afterwards, but they're not Villanova. Running wise, there is no question Villanova wins. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't have a clue. HOWEVER I didn't get into the academics, campus, team environment (one has under 20 and one has 50+), coaching and those are things you'll figure out when the time comes. I just pointed out the obvious and that is Villanova has a superior running program than Cornell. It's a fact, but good luck! Don't rush your decision! Hope to hear you do big things at whichever program you go to.

I don't think anyone that has stuck up for the Cornell program has even implied that they have the same national-level tradition that Villanova so obviously has and has earned so impressively over many decades. None of the Ivies have that kind of hard-ware, although Cornell, Yale and Harvard have all finished on the podium at the NCAAs back in the 80s and 90s (a different era for sure) and Princeton has been a top-five team at the NCAAs in the past ten years.

Your point that both have successful programs is correct though.

But yes, Villanova has won many more national championships. Great! They are the Yankees of women's cross country. Anyone that doubts that would be wrong but I don't think anyone has suggested that so no need to get defensive!

Now, is that what the OP is looking for?

Not saying that at all. I'm just saying, that even if you aren't a top runner out of high school, you will get enough attention that you can still be a top runner in college anyway. My clss recruited two sub 9:10 two milers. I would not ever call that not good for high school time. Sorry to be misunderstood, I would never mean to insult my former teammates.

Honestly, if you were my kid and had this choice in front of you it would be Cornell hands down.

Doesn't anyone look at academics when choosing a college anymore?