KENYA and DOPING

Noone is getting a free pass.Neither is it likely that there is a huge conspiracy in the federation, in Kenya in the US or internationally.If you are stupid, you WILL get cought, regardless of nationality.What is the truth is that doping take place in all contries, either initiated by athletes themself, or more often by doctors, by coaches and the most common, by managers and agents. And by far the majority get away with it, those getting cought are the top of the iceberg.Also used in the right way, the right substances are indeed performance enhancing, also for top kenyan athletes. Trying to hide that by lies and misinformation is not helping anyone.

Canada Coach wrote:

But that doesn't make any sense. Top American and European stars with much more name recognition than any Kenyan runner are busted. If what you're saying were true, then the Americans and Europeans who actually generate media interest and revenue would get the free pass, not the next Kenyan to come off the bus.

This was the best and most intelligent response

Jeff Wigand wrote:

I don't see any basis for that whatsoever. European track is dying for credible medalists in the distances and you're telling me that the IAAF is assisting in Kenyan dominance?

I've said it about 4 times so far, but you seem to be completely ignoring the point I'm making.

Busting a few Kenyans WILL NOT mean that European athletes start winning medals in distance races - at least not to any meaningful level.

You catch a few and more take their place - East Africa will be dominant in the sport no matter what happens. Clean/dirty - whatever.

A guy posted a very pertinent point a towards to end of the second page - discussing the 'running to and from school, clean living, yada yada yada'. This is the naive public perception of East African athletes - this is what the IAAF are working to maintain.

In terms of international distance running, the credibility of Kenyan/Ethiopian athletes is the credibility of the sport. A few Spanish/Russians getting busted here and there makes no real odds, the damage to the sport is negligible because of where they're from. You start catching Africans - distance running becomes the new cycling.

It doesn't matter if only 5 Kenyans are doping out of 20000. If they catch those 5, they're all tainted. That's why it's best to catch none.

Why did they catch Ramzi, then?

Living in Kenya wrote:

Someone Who Knows wrote:

In fact, it is rare to find a Kenyan athlete who would not say that Dr. Rosa is doping his athletes. [That is their opinion not mine.]

Once again, as with the other thread people making things up and passing it off as factual. Which athletes have you asked about Rosa? Is it rare to find one who says this because it is rare for you to find one at all?

I have no idea how Ginni or Rosa conduct their business as I have never met either of them. So again, like in the other thread I am not saying you are necessarily wrong - only questioning why you make things up and report them as facts?

Please name the athletes who have asked about Dr Rosa in order for us to evaluate the reliability of your made up evidence

If you live in Kenya, ask one, any one at all. It's not going to be hard for you to verify what I am saying if you live there.

my experience says, and i do have some, that this story does not add up = BULLSHIT.

OR do i have the story straight??

OK,the reporter comes in off the street and presents a bullshit story that he's an athletics agent needing drugs for his athletes???? to some kind of expert doctor who believes that bullshit???? and that expert doctor coughs up his guts on the spot?????? and gives out files on patients and all the damning evidence the reporter wants to hear????

UNLESS THE DOCTOR'S NAME IS GIVEN OUT, AND THAT DOCTOR IS FOUND TO BE CORRECT, CATEGORIZE THIS WHOLE "SCANDAL" AS BULLSHIT.

this dog don't hunt.

Schenck and Tittle wrote:

Why did they catch Ramzi, then?

A Moroccan running for Bahrain? He might as well had changed his name to Cheater McCheaterson and have a big sponsorship deal with AMGEN.

You have to catch people to show the testing system is credible. It doesn't matter if they're Olympic gold medallists as long as everyone knew anyway.

The sport actually gains credibility by smashing people like Ramzi.

This guy (Hajo Seppelt) has won many awards over the past few years for his reports on doping in professional sports, such as the award for "best investigative report" at the 2009 New York Festival TV & Video Awards.

But has reporting been fact checked in the past as well. Reading this current story , its based on assumptions vs hard black and white documented facts.

Timing just before the Olympic games will make this a guy a highly interviewed hero and cast a cloud over the Kenyans.

If he is a true investigative journalist he will go back to Kenya and document his assumptions or accept the role of a creative writer that stretches the truth with sensationalism to gain headlines for himself.

trollism wrote:

The sport actually gains credibility by smashing people like Ramzi.

Sad but true

Renato Canova wrote:

After the ridicolous investigation of the German journalist, I ask officially to AK to speak with WADA and IAAF in order to have WEEKLY TESTS WITH ALL THE KENYAN ATHLETES IN THE OLYMPIC TEAM.

And I ask to have WEEKLY TESTS with all my athletes in the top 30 in the World.

I appreciate the sentiments, however if you're taking about invasive blood tests, they can and will compromise the physical training and immunity of the athletes, so that is NOT a good idea at all.

There should be no treatment of the African runners any different than anyone else. Besides greed and abuse, the whole issue smacks of deep racism to me. Why don't the germans focus on their own, and the americans focus on their own, since they both have plenty of issues at home including their failing banking systems and economies.

Ben Wrong wrote:

Ask to IAAF calling for extensive Biological Passport tests.

No, that would be another stupidity. The tests are worthless but even more important we have the rights with humanity to not have our bodies invaded by needles, machines, and idiots in white coats.

The secret to the Kenyans success is simple-- it's impossible to find a population with a larger number of healthy males that have a lower BMI.

Thin wins. No calves. No forearms. No thighs. No biceps. No extra weight. No excessive dieting that leaves them depleted and injury prone.

Sure, drugs work for Kenyans, but they're so dominant, they'll sweep every marathon without them.

Alberto Contadoro wrote:

used in the right way, the right substances are indeed performance enhancing

How would you know this - because you must take the drugs yourself and think you see some results. However any results are solely due to training (probably better without drugs and, especially, helping to overcome your weak mentality.

captain and me wrote:

John Ngugi (5 time WCC champ) who was banned for not allowing a tester onto his property, a number of years ago.

Actually the tester (john whetton) burst into Ngugi's house unannounced, trying to push Ngugi around and demanding to take blood. Of course Ngugi threw him out.

I hope they are ALL clean. Because if one is found out to be dirty then it will cast a shadow on the entire bunch.

J.R. wrote:

There should be no treatment of the African runners any different than anyone else. Besides greed and abuse, the whole issue smacks of deep racism to me. Why don't the germans focus on their own, and the americans focus on their own, since they both have plenty of issues at home including their failing banking systems and economies.

So, um...you're suggestion that official athletics bodies stop testing for athletes doping so as to concentrate on failing banking systems and economies?

gramthlete wrote:

J.R. wrote:

There should be no treatment of the African runners any different than anyone else. Besides greed and abuse, the whole issue smacks of deep racism to me. Why don't the germans focus on their own, and the americans focus on their own, since they both have plenty of issues at home including their failing banking systems and economies.

So, um...you're suggestion that official athletics bodies stop testing for athletes doping so as to concentrate on failing banking systems and economies?

Not a bad idea, since testing is so flawed and unworkable. It will always raise more questions than the answers it provides.

And it is easy to find a doctor in the street who is willing to claim all the Kenyan success for a quick pay. Kenyans treat westerners different because they think they have have a lot of money, as a westerner you will pretty much get any info you want and people will say and just do anything for you. I have a lot more trust on Kenyan runners and Kenya people, I am worried more about people from outside who may have ulterior motives.The reporter might have been served better if he alleged that there are a few Kenyans you maybe doping but alleging that there is widespread doping in Kenya does not understand Kenya and its people.

Junk Master wrote:

The secret to the Kenyans success is simple-- it's impossible to find a population with a larger number of healthy males that have a lower BMI.

Thin wins. No calves. No forearms. No thighs. No biceps. No extra weight. No excessive dieting that leaves them depleted and injury prone.

Sure, drugs work for Kenyans, but they're so dominant, they'll sweep every marathon without them.

Don't disagree that they would be dominant anyway. It's what I've said all along.

But are you suggesting that because they would win anyway, they shouldn't be subject to the same standard of testing because it doesn't matter?

Agreed. I to know and trust the Kenyans from over the years as well.

Its my experience as you mention its the people who live on the outside wanting in to make fast money and will say and do anything to be a part and profit from it. The reporter really does not know the inside and reports on assumptions.