The best D-I X-C programs ever, using simple math?

Right, and it does not make a damn bit of difference in the top-ranked programs except those that used to be good and are not now. It changes little and Using a ratio of times is about as silly an idea as I can think of as a basis for aggregating across years. By the way, do you know anything about aggregation theory?

Ummm, that would make for the best x-c team ever (no argument there)... not the best * program*.

Devil's Advocate, great pull on the individual track data...

Your points are extremely valid. I'll be playing with the model over the next week as time permits (lot of business travel) and will repost if/when we make changes. Based on everyone's comments, it's highly likely that the year to year competitive weights will be revised down to lessen their impact -- but I don't think I'd eliminate them completely.

Adding "current NCAA 10K record" time might be another factor to throw into the formula, and not that labor intensive.

To the original guys who worked on this project. THANK YOU. While folks come on here and debate and criticize I appreciate that you took the time to at least do something relevant to cross country. We truly appreciate it.

"When Wisconsin was winning three NCAA titles in the 1980's they shared the old locker room with the wrestlers. Facilities? What does that matter?"

When Penn State had 3 top 4 finishes in a row in the late 70's and early 80's we at least had a plywood "wall" between us and the wrestlers! (insert smilie here)

Wisconsin all the way. Check out their Big Ten record. I think Stanford should ranked higher.

AND UTEPs 6th and 7th runners were 19th and 20th that year (1981)

I took the data and reworked it, making different things a priority. If you want details read here:

http://tracksuperfan.com/most-dominant-mens-college-xc-programs-since-1961

Here's my top 50. After this year's nationals, OK State will probably move to 8th.

1 Wisconsin

2 Arkansas

3 Oregon

4 Colorado

5 Stanford

6 Providence

7 Villanova

8 Northern Arizona

9 Notre Dame

10 Oklahoma State

11 UTEP

12 Michigan

13 Georgetown

14 BYU

15 Arizona

16 Tennessee

17 Iowa State

18 Penn State

19 Iona

20 NC State

21 William & Mary

22 East Tennessee State

23 Washington State

24 Texas

25 Indiana

26 Western Michigan

27 Michigan State

28 Dartmouth

29 Kansas

30 Minnesota

31 Alabama

32 Portland

33 Clemson

34 San Jose State

35 Illinois (University of)

36 Washington (University of )

37 Houston

38 Western Kentuckly

39 Air Force

40 Boston University

41 Wake Forest

42 Weber State

43 Virginia

44 Nebraska

45 UCLA

46 Eastern Michigan

47 Kansas State

48 Florida St

49 Auburn

50 New Mexico

51 Bowling Green

One slight error I caught was that you listed Long Beach State and Cal State Long Beach as two separate schools... it's the same school...

This looks far better, not sure why some freako mod deleted my posts from this thread and banned me.

Did I? I missed Portland's #7 finish in 2001 altogether as well... (Okay fine, I kinda suck.)Needless to say -- based on these errors and some great suggestions people have had about how to adjust the weighting formula -- I'll be going back under the hood and presenting a revised version of the rankings (plus women's rankings -- we have the data now) and a clear description of the methodology changes to account for exactly what changed.May take me a few days to do this (f%$^ing day job and my damn running habit keep getting in the way), but I'll have something shortly.Some of the suggestions I am strongly considering so far:- Reduce the weight that the "Competitive Multiplier" ascribes to more recent performances- Ascribe more value to a win/podium/top-10 finish than merely making the championship meet. (We already do this BTW, it just might not be strong enough.)- Use an outside metric -- like previous-year NCAA 10K/5K performances, for example -- to determine the quality of the field. (I like this idea, but this is a slippery slope; hard to account for weather, tactical vs all-out racing, etc. Gotta think it through.)More to come, everyone. Thanks for the feedback.~RMFaster Than Forty

Glitch wrote:

One slight error I caught was that you listed Long Beach State and Cal State Long Beach as two separate schools... it's the same school...

You have CalTech for 1968 and 7th or 8th at that -- not a snowball's chance in... Maybe it is Cal (Berekely) or even Oxy, but surely not CalTech.

26mi235 wrote:

You have CalTech for 1968 and 7th or 8th at that -- not a snowball's chance in... Maybe it is Cal (Berekely) or even Oxy, but surely not CalTech.

I think it was Cal Poly (SLO)

Wisconsin got beat by Cal Poly (SLO) in 1986. When they finished 13th after their top two runners dropped out from injuries and everyone else ran like crap. We couldn't believe it. We were devestated enough but that was the crusher that Cal Poly San Luis Obisbo beat us.

26mi235 wrote:

You have CalTech for 1968 and 7th or 8th at that -- not a snowball's chance in... Maybe it is Cal (Berekely) or even Oxy, but surely not CalTech.

-----

Went back and checked the NCAA scorers' sheet and it clearly says Cal Tech. I don't know enough about the West Coast teams to speculate if this was a scorer's error -- but I do have an information request into the university. For now they can stand in the limelight until I hear otherwise ;-)

If you took the top CalTech runners in their history and put them in to the same race they might come in second in their DIII league - if it is a weak year. Cal Poly is the team.

26mi235 wrote:

If you took the top Cal Tech runners in their history and put them in to the same race they might come in second in their DIII league - if it is a weak year. Cal Poly is the team.

Cal Poly makes it again (I assume that it was Cal Poly San Luis Obisbo that actually made it back then and not Pomona, although Pomona did have some pretty good milers around that time).

Also, a look at top teams that made it and did not (*); Arkansas now has two misses and Oregon adds yet another, while teams that live and die by foreigners took a hit, on average, compared to more US-oriented programs.

1 Wisconsin

*2 Arkansas

*3 Oregon

4 Colorado

5 Stanford

6 Providence

7 Villanova

8 Northern Arizona

9 Notre Dame

10 Oklahoma State

*11 UTEP

12 Michigan

13 Georgetown

14 BYU

*15 Arizona

*16 Tennessee

*17 Iowa State

*18 Penn State

19 Iona

20 NC State

*21 William & Mary

Men's teams:

Brigham Young Cal Poly

Colorado Columbia

Eastern Kentucky Georgia

Florida Michigan

Florida State Minnesota

Georgetown New Mexico

Indiana Northern Arizona

Iona Notre Dame

North CarolinaSt Ohio State

Oklahoma Princeton

Oklahoma State Providence

Portland Tulsa

Stanford Washington State

Syracuse

Texas

Texas A&M

Villanova

Wisconsin